[00:00:00] Donny: Brands are navigating the new Web Three world, and with it comes an opportunity for experimentation, innovation, and engaging consumers in entirely new ways. But where do you start and when? In this new season of the Brave Marketer Podcast, we’re talking Web three marketing and how to market in the Metaverse.

[00:00:19] You hear from marketers, from top brands and agencies who will help us leverage this exciting moment in time. And take our brave marketing moments to Next Level hosted by Brave Software and me, Donnie Devork. You are listening to a new episode of The Brave Marketer Podcast, and this one features Matt Wort.

[00:00:37] Matt is a strategist, marketer, and creator whose consultancy Point Symmetry works with emerging web three brands and platforms, as well as established brands and agencies evolving into the space. He’s also the co-founder of Mint, a whitelabel technology platform for leading brands to get started with digital tokens and web three engagement.

[00:00:54] He spent the previous two decades as a brand marketer. First spearheading the MBA’s digital content [00:01:00] team, and then building the first social media agency for brands like Co. Coca-Cola Universal, Unilever, and hbo. I think you’re really gonna love this episode because we discuss who will lead the next phase of Web 2.5 and web three adoption.

[00:01:12] We talk about the role agencies will be in the adoption of Web three. We talk about the tipping point of the metaverse, and finally, NFT missteps and the critical flaws so many NFTs launches had last year. And for no further ado. Now here’s this week’s episode of The Brave Marketer.

[00:01:27] Matt, welcome to the Brave Marketer Podcast. How

[00:01:35] Matt: you doing today? I am great, Donnie. Thank you for having me. I am feeling especially inspired and motivated just by looking at you, and I’m looking forward to a fun chat here. That’s

[00:01:46] Donny: awesome. What motivates you by

[00:01:47] Matt: looking at me? Honestly, I think it’s the photography in the background or the ornately, grandma inspired pillow behind you on the couch.

[00:01:55] that might be what it is.

[00:01:56] nice. Yep. That’s, from our couch and our pillows [00:02:00] from Manhattan circa the year 2000 when we like graduated college and end up in our basement. so those pillows they have some stories to tell exactly. They’ve survived Web one.

[00:02:11] Yes, web two. And now those pillows are ready for web three.

[00:02:14] Donny: Oh, I love how you brought it back to crypto. So with that in mind, you work at a place called Point Symmetry. Can you give us some background? What do you do there? What does the company do?

[00:02:26] Matt: Yeah, I would say I work in and out of Point Symmetry.

[00:02:29] It’s a consultancy that I created probably 15 years ago now that has either been a primary or a peripheral part of my professional career as a way of kind of working with some startups, working with some new projects on the side, even if I have a full-time role, and it’s become a great way for me to connect and work with lots of different companies, right?

[00:02:51] I can gain some visibility into the market. , gather new insights and learn about new technologies, but also just position myself in a [00:03:00] way that can make an impact with that information. It’s possibly, I could do that at an established entity if someone wants to hire me, and that’s happened with early stage companies.

[00:03:09] Though I am really focusing on helping to put brand strategy frameworks in place. I’ve created a model called most M O S T Mission Objective Strategy Tactics, and that can really. Some early web three companies that may have a great founder or a great product, but may have less experience taking an idea to market.

[00:03:29] So defining goals, responsibilities, and KPIs is really helpful for them. But then it’s also occasionally an opportunity for me to date before I marry, get to know them, see if I wanna work with them, and I’ve done that right? When it makes sense, I will take on a more full-time role and then point imagery can kind of fade into the background.

[00:03:48] That

[00:03:49] Donny: makes a ton of sense. You would go from being point symmetry to

[00:03:52] Matt: Matt worst. Right? Exactly. And I That knowledge isn’t lost. Right? Right. But it’s actually called point symmetry for two reasons. One is [00:04:00] I can serve as a central point of strategic contact, playing a role of brand strategist or project manager, which I’ve done over.

[00:04:08] You can measure my career in decades, but then I tap into our collective network of experts or specialized creators. so that’s one reason I am a central point of contact. But also if you look at my initials, mw, they are point symmetrical. , which if you remember from fourth grade math, it means it’s the same if you turn ’em upside down.

[00:04:27] It’s point symmetry. Mm-hmm. . So I like to flip things on their head. That’s great.

[00:04:30] Donny: Maybe. Yeah. my initials are kind of, point symmetric in a way too, because it’s dd it’s the same letter. So it

[00:04:37] Matt: has to be the same. Yes. Right. So I think that’s how Dun. God, it’s marketing really well established by playing on the double D.

[00:04:46] Yep. So if you can be as pervasive and well known in the marketing and technology ecosystem as familiar as I am with Donuts, then it’s gonna be a win for you. Well,

[00:04:56] Donny: you’re gonna be helping me to do that because you have a huge [00:05:00] following and we’re just gonna get millions of subscribers on this episode.

[00:05:03] So my claim to fame will be this, podcast,

[00:05:05] Matt: oh, I don’t know if math is your strength then, but millions, thousands, hundreds. We’ll see. I’ll do my best for

[00:05:11] Donny: you. All right, so let’s jump into, what’s the most exciting thing you’re working on

[00:05:15] Matt: right now? This is one of those moments, as I was explaining point symmetry where I’ve stepped away from day-to-day involvement with a more full-time role.

[00:05:23] And I had spent the last year and a half, two years working with a white label technology platform in web three called Mint, which. Onboards brands, mainstream brands, leading global brands and their consumers into Web three. By reducing and eliminating as many of the barriers to entry as possible.

[00:05:41] What’s interesting about that is that it really started with a four week consulting relationship with and to help the initial, technical founders and stayed on for, again, almost two years as a co-founder and initial C M O. So now what I’m doing is I step back. A more flexible [00:06:00] environment. I’m working with a few early stage companies.

[00:06:02] Again, open-minded to long-term things, attempt to permit if they happen, but one of those companies whose name I probably shouldn’t mention just yet, cuz it’s just on the verge of launching, but I joined them to. And lead in developing some of their brand strategy, their marketing models, putting that M O S T mission objective strategy and really focusing on the strategies in place because we’re thinking about who’s the audience, what are the benefits, what are the communications?

[00:06:28] But this company is a rapidly evolving and growing media publisher focusing on AI web three new innovative technologies because traditional media covering our. It’s kind of asleep right now in how it’s covering it. And while the early crypto focused media platforms may not be experienced enough with broader cultural implications from a mainstream lens, this media publishing company is gonna be different.

[00:06:57] It’s a different kind of journalism. Think of it as like a [00:07:00] wired for web three blockchain. The art will be stunning AI generated, but the editorial will. Include investigations through blockchain. We’re gonna cover heroes, protagonists, as well as the villains in this space. And there’s no shortage of villains.

[00:07:15] Villains right now at the moment, so it’s gonna start out as a daily newsletter. We’re launching testing with, you know, small pre alpha group, but it’s not crypto heavy like Block Works or CoinDesk, and it’s not NFT centric like nft Now, all of which are. This is also not gonna be like a one man team in his basement newsletter, like some of the others.

[00:07:35] If you wanna check out my LinkedIn page, I have some information there. That might be a good way for me to tease it without giving it away.

[00:07:42] Donny: Got it. Yep. We don’t wanna spill the beans. Totally

[00:07:44] Matt: understandable. Marketing is all about the right time with the right message, right? So we wanna make sure we hit it and nail it at exactly the right.

[00:07:52] Right.

[00:07:52] Donny: Because how many times do people have great ideas but they’re just too early for their time and then they don’t and then they fail. [00:08:00] People underestimate that the importance of time goes into a business. Cuz maybe a privacy browser like brave 10 years ago would’ve been like, you know, failed right away.

[00:08:10] People didn’t care about privacy if people not right for it.

[00:08:13] Matt: Yeah. For

[00:08:14] Donny: any new listeners, this podcast is all about people’s brave marketing moment and,actually in its inception, this podcast was gonna be like a seven minute podcast where would just come on and ask the same question every time, which is like, what is your brave marketing moment?

[00:08:28] But then we said, Hey, you know what? They’re on the phone. We’ve put all this time into it. Might as well ask a few other questions, but this is the 10th poll of the podcast. So, Matt, when is a time in your career where you took a risk, you stepped outta your comfort zone and did something

[00:08:43] Matt: brave?

[00:08:44] I probably live outside my comfort zone, but we’ll focus on maybe one or two instances. I think the recurring theme throughout my own professional journey is, Navigating where there are no roads, right. Jumping into new technologies, [00:09:00] tools, platforms, and frameworks without a safety net. So what, what do you need back to

[00:09:04] Donny: the future or something where we’re going, we

[00:09:07] Matt: don’t need roads.

[00:09:07] Right, exactly. and that’s the whole point. I am a time machine that takes you from where you are to where you need to be. So with. Web 1.0 in the first websites for brands 20 plus years ago, including early mba.com. Right. I was working on that to building the first social media marketing practice at an agency to test and learn whether or not social was even gonna be a thing for brands.

[00:09:31] And we talk a lot about jumping into web three technology solutions earlier we did. Right. I think though, my real brave pivot and maybe moment of realization. Having left a comfortable role in the C-suite of a big digital marketing agency and moving on to build and lead a small agency, it was called Revelation, and that move was really brave.

[00:09:54] But the real brave idea came in recognizing and believing that [00:10:00] brands and marketers had pivoted over the last decade too far. Like the pendulum swung too far towards relying on. Pay-to-play media channels and big centralized institutions to support their businesses. And with that, recognition, that brave moment that like we wanted to take on some of those big players, we began to, as an agency, pitch our core philosophy and strategy, offering these global brands a way to reclaim ownership of their content, of their data, of their relationship.

[00:10:27] With consumers via and through brand owned and operated content experiences, right? So part of that is like a direct to consumer realization, but it’s also re-architecting your entire digital ecosystem. And that epiphany carried me through the acquisition of that company and also into Web three entrepreneurship.

[00:10:45] But the idea of challenging. Google, Facebook, Amazon, like places where you have to live in their environment and play on their playground. The dominant forces of digital media and tech is tricky because we still needed them [00:11:00] for partnership around reach and amplification, but instead of pushing everything out, Using those platforms as a vehicle to bring consumers back.

[00:11:08] And I didn’t think brands were necessarily aware that they were ready for it. So that positioning was, a delicate tightrope walking act that. Again, you ask about comfort. I don’t like towing the line anyway. I like being provocative and pushing, but for the right reasons. If we can define that mission and those objectives in a way that tie to business outcomes, then the output should be malleable and flexible and adaptable based on what we’re doing.

[00:11:39] Got it. Yep.

[00:11:40] Donny: Good. So let’s get into web three. Who are gonna be the real leaders in this next phase of, you know, web 2.5 into web three. I

[00:11:49] Matt: love that you call it Web 2.5, because I believe that is a great way to define where we are, why it matters. It’s actually a, it’s a term that I tweeted very, very early on in [00:12:00] my journey about how to get into this space.

[00:12:03] I re-shared that tweet a couple weeks. It was like the second anniversary of my web 2.5 tweet, because. Innovation is, happening. And very quickly, consumers, brand marketers, regulators, we’re all moving at a very rapid pace. This is an evolution, not a revolution. And Web three is centered around this idea of ownership, of removing control from the dominant big data companies that I was talking about and and other central authorities.

[00:12:31] And it’s handing it to the masses. And this. The role that art was supposed to play in society way back when, and Web three kind of got its hooks with crypto on one end and Art and NFTs on the other. So Web 2.5 is this term that I use to describe the blending of current digital strategies with the web three and decentralized web, but also how traditional and existing marketers can think about a new frontier.

[00:12:55] How do they move forward? How do they progress? Like where traditional meets the innovative, [00:13:00] but like, Paradigm shift in marketing. The technology right now, I believe, is ahead of the creative and the strategy. We saw the same thing happening with the social networks and the digital media tools for a few years, like a decade, 15 years ago, before people really got organized and knew how to tackle and when on these platforms.

[00:13:19] So who led the way then? It’s the same people I think will lead the way. Now it’s scrappy, fast moving digital marketing. That’s right. Agencies are not dead, I’m having like real pattern recognition here. Digital strategists and creatives at small and maybe some bigger agencies are learning how to build with these new tools.

[00:13:38] And that’s what’s gonna be really fascinating is they learn as they adapt, as they pivot, as they see other use cases and steel and borrow from others in this space. You know, we’re soon, if not already, Seeing the power of traditional marketing techniques such as branding and, storytelling and reach and the, the whole marketing funnel, but starting [00:14:00] to overlay new data sources, new consumer expectations like privacy, like greater control and personalized experiences, and the blockchain can make that happen.

[00:14:10] So Web 2.5 will be led by strategic consumer marketers. In a transitional hybrid marriage of old and new, a shift away from one way top-down communication, you know, the traditional marketing model towards a more, not extremely, but a more collaborative, decentralized, democratic approach that gives brands and developers and creators and businesses and everybody, an ability to connect with consumers in a way that’s just not been possible.

[00:14:40] Yeah. Yeah,

[00:14:41] Donny: yeah. I actually love that you said agencies will be the one to innovate because I don’t, I think that agencies don’t get enough credit. I think that a lot of the times, like, you know, the big ideas, it’s like, oh, this brand, this X, Y, and Z. But it was like, well, it was actually the agency that came up with that idea.

[00:14:59] And at the [00:15:00] end of the day, the ones that are building, it’s not the necessarily the brands or the brand manager that’s building something in web three. , it’s their agency that’s building it. So I

[00:15:10] Matt: I,

[00:15:10] I like that. Yeah. Look, agencies have the unique visibility into a number of different projects, ways of working data sources that very focused brand marketers, brand side marketers don’t necessarily have.

[00:15:22] And that’s why you see the in-housing trend. And now we’re going back to small specialized agencies again as a trend, as the technologies continue to improve and shift, and the market changes and adapts. The smartest people may exist anywhere, but the processes that agencies have used from the dawn of Ogilvy’s and the Grays and those big Madison Avenue shops, those haven’t really changed.

[00:15:50] It’s just the tools that we use to build that are changing. You still need architects and you still need builders, but what tools they use, that’s what’s changing over time. [00:16:00] So let’s

[00:16:01] Donny: talk about the Metaverse. I’ve talked about on other episodes where the metaverse is really interesting. Brands are starting to experiment on it.

[00:16:09] Your buddy Hocker, that was on last week. We talked about, you know, the metaverse, but there’s also a scalability issue or enough people interacting there. Give us your opinion. It’s a very broad question. What’s your opinion on the whole metaverse?

[00:16:23] Matt: It’s funny because the idea of the metaverse right now, Is still something that makes me uncomfortable.

[00:16:31] Not the idea of virtual augmented realities, but there is no, yet the metaverse, it’s not one unified idea or concept, but all of these individual, virtual, whatever the ecosystem is, they’re still very disconnected. So if

[00:16:47] Donny: you were to rephrase my question, I should have said, what do you think of the metaverse?

[00:16:52] Matt: I’m not being critical of you. I’m just saying that I call the micro verses multiverses, metaverse environments because they [00:17:00] are plural, right? Some are on chain, some are not. It’s many environments, but not yet one ecosystem. And others may tell you that’s okay because it’s really just the next generation, the internet, and that’s fine.

[00:17:11] But as a fan of parlance and lingual messaging as a marketer, Unifying meaning and definition is gonna be important with all these different definitions and disconnected destinations. I don’t think we’ve actually seen the real potential yet, and that’s what excites me about it. It’s maybe a little bit of a land grab now, a little bit of a test and learn.

[00:17:31] We’re earlier in the hype cycle than we were with some of the other web three concepts like crypto and even NFTs. But land grab may be an interesting term because. Manifest destiny and suburban sprawl of the 18 hundreds and the 19 hundreds. With better technology that we can leverage, it will become a better use case.

[00:17:50] So cars and railroads made those types of land grabs better. From a brand marketing perspective, it’s always gonna be an always on mindset to improve this, but [00:18:00] that’s only gonna happen once. Script is flip right now. Brand activations in Metaverse, micro verse multiverse experiences, whether they build, whether they borrow or whether they buy something.

[00:18:12] They’re basically campaigns to build a community. it’s not a lot of strategy or audience targeting that’s going into it yet, but throughout the history of marketing, and I did this with web two and social. , the most successful models have been where campaigns are created for communities, not communities, for campaigns, and that’s what’s happening.

[00:18:34] So until that script is flipped, I don’t expect to to see a lot of value yet, even if it’s fun and entertaining and engaging in more one-off experiences. Ask me again in three years when I come back for episode 900. Of the Brave podcast and I’m, I have even less hair than I do now. It will be a different answer, but as a time machine taking you back to the [00:19:00] future, I can tell you that what I would like for it to be is.

[00:19:04] a cohesive, connected, collaborative. The connection is what matters, right? So as, we build towards that, it will become even more real and more exciting. Mm-hmm. .

[00:19:14] Donny: Yeah. so everybody uses the internet, even though there’s thousands and thousands of websites we call the internet.

[00:19:21] When’s the tipping point of the metaverse?

[00:19:24] Matt: I think when there is true navigability and interoperability, which are terms we hear a lot in different ways in our space, I can’t right now look at in more than a handful of very meaningful activations that have happened across web three that have delivered.

[00:19:44] Real business outcomes. A lot of output, a lot of activity, not a lot of achievement or outcome yet. And that’s okay. We’re still early. I’m making air quotes for those of you listening in your car or on the train, but depending on your definition of metaverse environments, We’re still much more in the learning [00:20:00] phase than we are in the sharing of success stories.

[00:20:03] I hear the same five examples mentioned over and over again, and that’s okay, but the real tipping point will occur not when we build virtual and augmented reality worlds that connect, but when the building blocks of these ecosystems are actually truly interoperable. And that to me, Tokens. Tokenization is, the first step towards building a more comprehensive, cohesive ecosystem.

[00:20:27] If you’re a brand jumping in to build a virtual world and you haven’t yet created a token strategy, you’re skipping steps. You’re on step seven and you haven’t gone to step two yet. So I think we have to see some of that backtracking and foundational building block, elemental places, put in place.

[00:20:44] Until that happens, I don’t see a real. Minimally viable product yet. Yeah,

[00:20:50] Donny: it’s gonna take a while. I don’t think that the Metaverse has shown value to the end user quite yet. Like, you know, like people say when you’re starting a [00:21:00] company, it’s like, what’s the value that you’re providing? Do people really want to, you know, buy it or want that information?

[00:21:06] And you know, the metaverse, you know, hasn’t quite done that yet, but I think it will. I mean, no,

[00:21:11] Matt: but there are again, within. Pockets of this smaller, disconnected space. We talk about value and benefit entertainment and engagement and information is still a benefit, but does it outweigh the cost of acquisition yet, or are the barriers of entry still so high?

[00:21:30] People ask me all the time like, why should I be using the blockchain for this thing? And in many cases the answer is, well, it’s not markedly better. But it’s going to be, and if you don’t start building now and understanding and learning, then you will be behind when others who are leading the way actually have it figured out.

[00:21:48] I still think that Nike and Reddit and Starbucks and those examples of mainstream brands who are onboarding. Mass consumers are going to be ahead of the game, even if what they’re doing right now [00:22:00] isn’t perfect. Right. Nike’s Crypto Kicks was pretty headline grabbing one of the first to kickstart the web three race, but they did it by purchasing artifact, which isn’t bad or isn’t wrong, but you’re bringing a vision of virtual and real world physical products together.

[00:22:15] That’s really cool. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to. No, I think we all need to have some degree of tolerability. You know, Reddit also deserves a lot of credit for the way they onboarded new members into their experience. Creating an avatar was always part of the, you know, opening your profile on Reddit, even before NFTs ever received mainstream awareness and then criticism, and then potentially curiosity.

[00:22:39] But they brought on chain millions of new. , and that’s exciting. So for me, I want brands, I want marketers to right now be focused less on revenue and more on long-term customer value through loyalty and engagement and identity, and knowing your [00:23:00] audience. You know, some of the most notable projects have been collaborations between brands and creators, or brands and artists, or whatever it may be, right?

[00:23:07] but if the audiences don’t align, if the incentives to participate aren’t great, you’re still living in this like N F T 1.0 world and we need to very quickly accelerate past that because loyalty and identity and co-creation, that’s what’s gonna drive the next level of adoption, I think. And we’re still very early in this next phase of Web three, 2.0.

[00:23:32] That’s a lot of decimal points, but. I think the iteration of this is, is fascinating. Yep.

[00:23:37] Donny: It’s good. Let’s move over to NFTs. After the last year of NFT Project Missteps , why do you still believe that the tokenization is at the core of the future of brand

[00:23:50] Matt: marketing? If you think about a misstep is a good term because many of those missteps shared.

[00:23:59] in my [00:24:00] opinion, at least one critical flaw. But it was the primary critical flaw, and that is they didn’t actually leverage marketing fundamentals. Mm-hmm. , the individual adoption of blockchain and crypto has accelerated pretty quickly, in some cases, very rapidly in certain pockets of our consumer market.

[00:24:17] and in other cases it’s been slow to adopt. Those that are now starting to put real strategic frameworks in place, whether they are native web three brands or established legacy, well-known mass market brands. The first phase of this was brand activations offering colorful art or seemingly feeling like cash grabbing.

[00:24:37] Cash grab is not the right term if you’re an artist looking to monetize ip, but for brands who already have existing established, Business models in place, you gotta rethink this. And the goal has been to facilitate direct audience engagement, foster community growth, incentivizing participation through ownership, and also [00:25:00] monetizing valuable brand ip.

[00:25:01] But we’re now starting to see, I talked about agencies, but we’re starting to see foundational building that incorporates the marketing playbook. It’s not gonna replace it, We’re not replacing everything that we’ve ever done. We’re adding new layers of ownership and experiences in ways that can enable brands to reclaim that ownership of the relationship, right, with their fans, with their consumers, with their advocates, their partners.

[00:25:26] So for me, tokens, the next phase of is, is it’s already providing powerful models for companies to think about beyond just collectibility and speculation. Tokens tokenization The core building block of Web three. Fungible non fungible tokens are assets, though non fungible tokens that are gonna be created by brands that can be earned and collected and won and purchased and gained through various means of participation that will enable brands to enter [00:26:00] new markets, talk to different consumers, their existing consumers.

[00:26:03] Look at new innovation. Audience segmentation 1 0 1, right. We have to get back to facilitating more of that direct engagement, and I view that tokens are a key to both reward and incentivize participation, but also unlock access to this next generation of. Experiences, content, commerce, community, other C words that probably can think of right now.

[00:26:27] Concerts. Yeah, sure. Keep going. Contests, cars, who knows, right? But the business model of nearly every. Proposed Web three platform. ,Whether you’re a tech platform, you’re a brand engaging in the space, it’s going to entail distributing tokens to your audience to get them involved, to incentivize them, to use the platform, to improve it, to participate, to make the community stronger.

[00:26:51] So as the value of those tokens goes up through participation, the benefits need to be commensurate with that experience as well. And [00:27:00] that’s why Insights strategy, creative. Distribution, measurement and optimization. The marketing 1 0 1 flywheel that I had on my wall when I graduated college still applies.

[00:27:13] Donny: Yep. The fundamentals of marketing won’t change. It’s the technology that changes.

[00:27:18] Matt: Yeah. It’s again, knowing who your audience is, how do you find them? Where are they? What do they want?

[00:27:25] Donny: Before the podcast, we were talking about B2 D two, b2.

[00:27:31] Matt: Huh, mouthful. Right? What does that mean? As a marketer, we think about brand strategies in sometimes very binary ways like B2B or b2c, or D to C.

[00:27:41] We partner with DMPs and DSPs, they’re crm, ccpm, cpa, cpc, right? But with web three and blockchain, the ecosystem that we are building, audience segmentation, it’s just as important, but it’s a little bit different. So the ecosystem for marketers to navigate in this expanding blockchain [00:28:00] world is b2, D to b2c.

[00:28:02] Depending on where you fit in this ecosystem, the awareness and understanding of these communications to these A is critical. So you’ve got blockchain companies B, that are all vying for developers, D to build in their ecosystem, them attracting brands, businesses. And their end consumer to engage and transact on their platforms.

[00:28:28] So developers, building games, brands, building communities. This is a network of blockchain developer, brand consumer, B to D to b2c. So while you get Polygon paying to bring Starbucks and Nike onto their chain, you have dapper bringing doodles onto flow and the nba. There is different type of marketing and messaging that needs to happen here.

[00:28:51] So the strategies have a cascading impact all the way down to the end consumer who may or may not even be getting their head around [00:29:00] this entire thing at the moment. But if you wonder why we have adoption challenges, it’s because sometimes all of these entities in this space are talking to each other and at each other in a very echo, chambery way, where we may inherently understand that developers.

[00:29:15] Brands are different, but they’re all building on blockchain, talking to consumer, like, we gotta get that squared away. We need alliances, we need partnerships, we need consolidation. We need central points of contact to make this point symmetrical world much more organized and more progress oriented. Yep.

[00:29:37] I agree.

[00:29:38] Donny: What’s the big opportunity for crypto marketers? Right.

[00:29:41] Matt: Well, I think you know as well as anyone, when people ask me about crypto, I will nerd out about this because a big part of what I feel obligated and compelled to do is differentiate these terms, the technology. It’s like I get into this whole mapping process of what is crypto, what are non fungible tokens?

[00:29:56] What is the blockchain? So if we [00:30:00] simplify this a little bit, crypto marketing is a little bit different than other types of traditional or. Marketing, but it all fits into web three. So I don’t know if you’re asking like web three marketing, but Web three is about building systems right now that don’t rely on trusting people, corporations, or governments to make moral choices.

[00:30:18] For us, it renders bad choices, impossible. The blockchain is the underlying, crucial technology for making that happen. So when I talk to a brand marketer for the first time, who’s like, what do I really need to know? It’s that what makes this different right now is blockchain technology. It is unlocking new value exchanges, enabling people to participate in different ways.

[00:30:38] But what’s confusing, I think, to them is that they hear things or read things about crypto because some cryptocurrency tokens share the same or similar names as the blockchains they’re on, right? Bitcoin or e Ethan Ethereum. What is a token? What is the blockchain? That’s very confusing. So I break it down to those building block elements where crypto and non fungible [00:31:00] tokens, which may need to be rebranded, both of them with new names or new terms, right?

[00:31:04] Digital collectibles or ownable assets. All that is important for marketing. But knowing that these are different types of tokens built on the block. While Metaverse experiences are going to become structured ecosystems that build on top of all this, and the tokens are. assets stored in your private wallet.

[00:31:22] That’s the first step is education. Like that’s the biggest opportunity right now for marketers is to get educated and then continue to educate. Mm-hmm. . So that’s the first step to get crystal clear on just what these technologies, these types of tools and terminologies can even mean. Cuz the potential’s incredible.

[00:31:39] So decoupling. Then the crypto speculation from ledger technology and talking about tokens and smart contracts is the next step. Then step three. Not to get too far ahead of ourselves is adding to the existing marketing mix. Not replacing anything but adding to it in a way that builds, that expands that [00:32:00] enhances, that delivers just new benefits or unique benefits that will be markedly better than the current solutions.

[00:32:08] That’s to be accessible, to be frictionless, to be consumer. And there’s a lot that marketers in web three can do very specifically and tactically from expanding membership programs to loyalty and rewards, to ticketing, to token gated access to all those community content commerce, cars, contests, concerts, whatever, and building for the long term.

[00:32:33] Mm-hmm. , that’s scaling programs that deliver ongoing value to token holders and owners. Better than what we have. Maybe not yet in every way, but the opportunities and I think the potential are fascinating. Yep.

[00:32:48] Donny: Good. well, why don’t we start wrapping it up. Can you nominate another brave marketer to be on the show?

[00:32:53] Matt: Yes, it would be my pleasure. I don’t know if I’m allowed to nominate two to make your your life twice as hard, [00:33:00] but living and operating in the web three ecosystem, I’m gonna nominat. Two women, actually. You see the shirt I’m wearing? Yep. Today that we record this, it is International Girl and women’s playing Sports Day.

[00:33:14] Nice. So I want for you to have fun in your conversation, playing with two people. One is. Dana Hok, H O R k. Mm-hmm. . She writes a great web 2.5 newsletter at the intersection of Web two, web three works through her own consultancy with Ignite Ventures, but she was previously the head of social media at Walmart and the marketing lead at Wonder, which is a a food tech company.

[00:33:41] So, Talk about someone with marketing chops. Yep. Pun intended. She is great. The other person that I would recommend is Jennifer Catula, who is at Polygon. She’s in marketing, business development. She spent many years at Facebook. [00:34:00] So to go from Facebook to Polygon is, I mean, it tells you everything you need to know.

[00:34:06] she’s also great. So Dana and Jen, you are. Good luck, Don. You might have your hands full with the intellectual brain power that those two will bring to you.

[00:34:14] Donny: That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for that, Matt. I, we really appreciate that. And how can our users get in touch with you?

[00:34:19] Matt: I am not quiet on the socials.

[00:34:22] you can follow me at m worst M W U R S T on Twitter or also at PT symmetry on Twitter. LinkedIn is probably where I do my most thought . So you can find me as, Matt, we there and follow my many wallets because the great thing about the blockchain is that it is open. So while we have many wallets right now, and that is both a challenge, it’s also fun to see what types of things people own with whom they are engaging, where their affinity becomes loyalty, and where their loyalty becomes [00:35:00] identity.

[00:35:00] Because that my friends, Is what Web three is all about. That’s

[00:35:03] Donny: awesome. Well, thanks for coming on the show. It was great having you. And we’ll, we’ll chat.

[00:35:08] Matt: Thank you.

[00:35:09] Donny: Thanks so much for listening to another episode of The Brave Marketer Podcast. Four quick things before you go. Number one, if you like what you’ve heard, it’d be really awesome if you’d rate us or write us a review on your podcast player.

[00:35:22] And if you didn’t like what you’ve heard, then don’t worry about it. Number two. If you would like to advertise to Brave’s 60 million users and have a budget of $10,000 or more, simply email us@addsalesbrave.com. That’s ad S A L e s brave.com. And let us know you’re our podcast listener for a 25% discount.

[00:35:45] Number three musical credits. Go to my brother Ari Devork. And finally, number four, go use brave@brave.com and we will see you next time on The Brave [00:36:00] Marketer.