[00:00:00] Donny: Brands are navigating the new Web three world, and with it comes an opportunity for experimentation, innovation, and engaging consumers in entirely new ways. But where do you start and when? In this new season of the Brave Marketer Podcast, we’re talking Web three marketing and how to market in the metaverse.

[00:00:19] You hear from marketers, from top brands and agencies will help us leverage this exciting moment in. And take our brave marketing moments to the next level. Hosted by Brave Software in me, Donnie Devo. You’re listening to a new episode of the Brave Marketer Podcast and this one features Avery Anini and she’s the president of Vayner three, which is a consultancy she launched alongside Serial entrepreneur Gary Vaynerchuck.

[00:00:44] Gary v. In less than 12 months, Avery successfully led the expansion of the consultancy to 50 Global Web three experts in a remote first environment, partnering with dozens of Fortune 500 companies across industries. and has successfully advised organizations [00:01:00] on strategic web, three initiatives across cryptocurrency applications and NFT program development and immersive digital experiences.

[00:01:06] I think you’re really gonna like this episode a lot because it has everyth. Got the Metaverse Web three Crypto. We talk about Gary Vaynerchuk. We talk about brand marketing and different activations that she has talked about expanding into different countries. we really stretch the gamut here, so I think you’re gonna enjoy that.

[00:01:23] And we also go into detail about the difference between stunt campaigns and always on marketing when it comes to the metaverse and what it’ll take to succeed in web three channels, and why Web 2.5 is what it is right now. Versus web three, and we’ll explain what that means, the difference of those things, and then examples of the most meaningful partnerships and activations that have happened in the Metaverse so far.

[00:01:43] But before we hop into today’s episode, we wanna highlight our brave pick of the week. So every episode we choose a brand that has run an ad campaign with Brave as our pick. And this week we’re gonna talk about Coly. And what Coley does is they solve the crypto tracking and tax reporting for investors.

[00:01:58] They have an innovative software [00:02:00] platform, expert, tax consultants, and a ton of resources that make tax season easier for crypto holders. Coley ran push notifications with brave sponsored image ads in ,Australia since their tax season just ended on October 31st getting in front of Braves crypto audience was the ideal fit for them and the timing of their ad in Australia was spot.

[00:02:19] so we no further ado. Here’s this week’s episode of The Brave Marketer.

[00:02:24]

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[00:02:24] Donny: Avery, welcome to the Brave Marketer Podcast. How are you doing today? Hi, I am great. How are

[00:02:33] Avery: you this morning, Donny?

[00:02:34] Donny: I am doing excellent. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We’re so excited to have you. We are big fans of everything, Vayner and Gary over here at Brave, so it’s good to have representation on the show.

[00:02:46] For those that don’t know Vainer three specifically, can you just give us a general over.

[00:02:51] Avery: Yeah, absolutely. So Vayner three is the web three consultancy that is proudly part of the Vayner X family. And for those who might not know Vayner X.

[00:02:59] Vayner [00:03:00] X is Gary Vayner, Tuck’s marketing and communications holding company that encompasses groups like Vayner Media, which is advertising agency, Vayner Speakers, which is a speaking bureau, Vayner Sports Gallery Media Group, which is a publisher, and now Vayner three. So we’re all part of this sort of one ecosystem of Vayner X, but within Vayner three we’re specifically focused in Web three all day every.

[00:03:20] That’s

[00:03:20] Donny: great. Web three will be the big focus for this conversation and our season. So with that in mind, what’s the most exciting thing that you’re working on right now?

[00:03:29] Avery: So art basil is just about 25 days away and we are hosting a really fun party, at Scope Beach, which I’m really excited about.

[00:03:36] It’s gonna be called V and we’re bringing together, different parts of the Vayner ecosystem. Everyone from our brand partners to Gary to V Friends to Vayner Sports to 1:37 PM So it should be an epic bash and that is something I’m very much looking forward to.

[00:03:51] Donny: That’s great. So what is your role for the art Basil and for that.

[00:03:56] I

[00:03:57] Avery: would say chief Party planner on this one. we have an amazing [00:04:00] team and an amazing production agency working on it, but making sure it’s all orchestrated, it’s all kind of coming together, it’s hitting the objectives that we’re looking for and also designing something that’s interesting and fun for our partners and, normal consumers.

[00:04:13] So I’m super pumped about that. last year we did a couple of sort of smaller things and we decided to go a little bit bigger this. It’ll be very fun to see that all come together. And in true web three fashion it will also be token ticketed. So we’re working on that right now. There’s several different designs for the tickets, which are NFTs and we’re working with token proof to actually token eat the whole hospitality tent experience.

[00:04:35] Donny: That’s awesome. So could you actually run through, cause I’m sure the audience would like to know what does a token ticket look like? Not physically or visually, but what is the process of how you would get the token and how you would redeem it to get into the.

[00:04:48] Avery: Yeah, so we have different allocations of tickets for different groups, whether they’re sponsors or partners of ours.

[00:04:54] We’re actually going to airdrop these groups in nft, and that NFT will [00:05:00] essentially enable those folks to enter the event, through a technology called token Proof. And token proof basically turns NFTs into access passes that can give you access to different things, whether it’s in real life experiences, digital ecosystems, and more so Token Proof is a partner of ours or really excited about, they’re working with a number of different sort of Web three native brands.

[00:05:21] And I think this will probably be one of their larger activations that isn’t exclusively for a Web three native audience. cause we do have. Sort of normal marketers coming, as well. So we’re really excited about that and excited about the ticket being both, an entry mechanism for today and the, keepsake for tomorrow that may even unlock different accesses in the future.

[00:05:41] Donny: Yeah, I was just about to ask you like, besides the cool factor, like what is the true advantage to the party goer for it to be an NFT versus just a regular, digital.

[00:05:52] Avery: Yeah, I think that the ability for us to add on, value in the future to that ticket is really the advantage and the opportunity and for us.

[00:05:59] We [00:06:00] also want to be really like walking the walk and showing people how web three technology can be implemented in their marketing campaigns and their daily lives. V Con, 2022, which is Gary’s conference for B Friends, was also token ticketed through sort of a homegrown solution. I thought that was really amazing and, and probably one of.

[00:06:19] First ever. I think it was the first ever large scale token ticketed event. So that was incredible. about 10,000 people in Minneapolis, Minnesota, so we’re sort of bringing that idea to art basil as well. So the ticket both serves as a keepsake, immediate entry, and something that we can add value onto in the future.

[00:06:36] Donny: That’s awesome. That’s a great idea. I’ve been thinking a lot about that. For media, could you tokenize media? So let’s say you would buy, a hundred thousand dollars of media kind of upfront, and then you would receive an nft and then later on, let’s say in six months, you wanted to redeem that nft, but the value of that media.

[00:06:55] It was now 200,000 or $300,000, but you kind of like locked in your [00:07:00] prices. Mm-hmm. . And then whenever you ran in the media, like the image or you know, the ad would actually then be the image of the NFT and then you could like resell it. There would be like a whole economy for buying and selling media on publishers or wherever you wanted to buy digital media.

[00:07:16] All through nft.

[00:07:18] Avery: Yeah, I think that’s an amazing idea. I feel like media is one of those industries that’s very ripe for disruption in a lot of ways. Obviously you all are doing this at Brave. Yeah. But we’ve seen a couple of more traditional media brands jump into the NFT space and so far it’s been very heavily in sort of the digital collectible realm.

[00:07:34] But I think in the future we’ll start to see more advanced economies and advanced sort of access and, and buying and selling that sort of mirrors how traditional media is bought, sold today, but in a more efficient liquid market.

[00:07:46] Donny: Yeah, I think what the key part of it is, like you wanna be able to do something that you can’t do today, and obviously make it faster and cheaper and all that, but like the fact that you can give additional value to the party goer after the event, that’s a key [00:08:00] component.

[00:08:00] And so on the media side, like what’s the additional value that you’re like, You know, buying media front that you could resell that media, that you could pull that media apart. There could be a whole, you know, distribution chain maybe you could link it to the ROI or the, you know, the effectiveness of the ad and then that increases the value of the token.

[00:08:19] Like you could really go deep into like all these intricacies of media with, with the token, and you just can’t do that when you’re. You know, fiat or cash for ads. Yeah, absolutely. This podcast is all about the brave marketing moment, a time where you’ve exhibited bravery in your role. Can you tell us about your brave marketing?

[00:08:39] Avery: Yeah, so I’ve started two different divisions within the world of Vayner X and I’ll actually talk about the first one. So, you know, I’ve always been very interested in the global economy. I was an international relations major and I’d always wanted to sort of like live abroad and experience a new culture.

[00:08:53] And my husband’s family’s actually originally from India and we were spending a lot of time in Southeast Asia and he was spending a lot of time in [00:09:00] China. We were like, okay, great. This might be, and For anyone listening to this, you’ve ever been to China, like the speed and the technology is so advanced compared to where we are in the Western world.

[00:09:09] I was just blown away like, oh my God. wow, this is incredible. So we started to look really seriously at moving to China, and I mentioned that to Gary. I was like, Hey, my husband and I are gonna move. I wanna go live abroad. I want to go experience and explore Asia. And he was like, why don’t you open Vayner in.

[00:09:26] And that led to actually me opening Vayner Media in Singapore and then expanding that to Bangkok in Tokyo, in Sydney and Hong Kong. Actually now they just opened in India as well. So I started Vayner Media APAC in 2019, which was, I would say, my brave marketing moment because I knew zero people I knew.

[00:09:45] Almost zero about everything in the marketing world there. But I was ready for the challenge. And you know, I moved with one person from my team and when I left we were 175 strong, which was a really fun journey to be a part of. And I’m just incredibly fortunate to [00:10:00] have had that opportunity and, and to have this incredible team that we were able to build across the region.

[00:10:06] Amazing clients and partners who were, happy to help us be sort of part of that journey in this new world that we were sort of figuring out as, as Vayner Media. And it continues to be our fastest growing office. So super proud of, everything that we built with Vayner Media, apac.

[00:10:19] Donny: No, that sounds amazing.

[00:10:20] So moving into like the Metaverse and web three, we’ve having a lot of discussions with different marketers about end agencies, and a common theme is that it’s exciting, it’s new, we know we need to get there. The audience isn’t quite there yet. It’s a lot of work to not get a lot of big roi.

[00:10:41] Most of the ROI comes actually from like the PR of doing something in the web three metaverse. So I’m not trying to lead the witness, but like does that all resonate with you? Like what do you think about marketing in the

[00:10:50] Avery: metaverse? Our perspective at Vayner is that Web three is inevitable. And right now we’re in the very, very early days of it.

[00:10:58] So these consumers who are growing up [00:11:00] playing in Roblox and spending all their time with digital goods for their birthday, they don’t want toys, they want Roblox. They’re valuing these, they’re making friends. It’s specific coordinates and meeting up. They’re gonna grow up and they’re gonna value this in a way that millennials never did.

[00:11:13] And I think. That’s an important consideration for marketers who are looking at the next generation of consumers. I also think there is a,sort of crowd of, early adopters today who have driven a significant amount of business success and commercial success and early success for the true early adopter Fortune 500 brands who have participated in this ecosystem.

[00:11:33] So at we’ve been fortunate to work with a number of those, and whether you’re talking about Budweiser or Bud Light, or Johnny Walker or Pepsi, Some of our brand partners have seen tremendous success, in their sort of early explorations of the Web three world. It’s not mainstream quite yet. The numbers are still pretty small when you look at total users participating these ecosystems.

[00:11:55] But brands who are leaning into this, I think are unlocking a whole host [00:12:00] of opportunities, not just in terms of immediate roi, but longer term community building and also training their organiz. To think about this next iteration of marketing in, in a really smart way and sort of harness that power to build interesting campaigns that touch on everything from the metaverses to NFTs to sometimes even cryptocurrency as part of this web three umbrella.

[00:12:23] But I, I agree with your sentiment that it is not yet mainstream and, and actually one of our predictions for 2023 is that Web three will start inching towards that idea of mainstream adoption through a concept that we’ve sort of labeled Web 2.5, which I think you’ve seen some brands dabbling in, whether that’s Reddit or Draft Kings or Game Stop, that sort of make it easy for consumers to participate in a way that sort of bridges.

[00:12:50] The speed and ease of use in web two with ownership and self sovereignty of what three.

[00:12:56] Donny: Yeah, I totally agree with you. I use those term web [00:13:00] 2.5 all of the time because like at Brave we have the basic attention token, which is completely web three, and we have a digital wallet and there’s, there’s so many components of what we do, which is web three.

[00:13:12] But when you look at the advertising that we’re selling, It’s a regular ad server. It’s not a decentralized ad server. We’re building a decentralized ad server and there’s like a ton of blog posts on something called Themus, which is just gonna be like next generation, how everyone in five or 10 years will do advertising online.

[00:13:31] You know, like totally cutting out the middle man But right now it’s the ads are run in a traditional manner. So you have some aspects with that where consumers are getting rewarded for seeing the. But you’re still using kind of, I’ll call like an old school, even though it’s new technology server, and so that’s why I always use that term 2.5 and it makes a

[00:13:48] Avery: lot of sense.

[00:13:48] Yeah, I agree with that.

[00:13:50] Donny: Cool. When you look at the Metaverse, do you think this is for one off campaigns or do you see a time where there’s always on marketing and a continued investment with a [00:14:00] Metaverse partner?

[00:14:01] Avery: Absolutely the latter. I think what we’ve seen to date is a number of different sort of stunt campaigns are marketers looking to dip their toe in or dabble often through partnerships and collaborations.

[00:14:11] But I think in the future where we’re gonna see a shift to is having Web three integrated as a fundamental part of an always on strategy and always on campaign

[00:14:19] that engages consumers through mechanisms like loyalty and gamification, not just a sort of tent pole moment. When I look at probably. 100 of the Fortune 500 who dabbled in this space already.

[00:14:33] I think the vast majority of them have been in this sort of stunt territory. They’ve been looking to get earned media, they’ve been looking to explore. But the ones who I think are really savvy and sophisticated are actually looking at this as a central capability that they’re building internally. And, not something that’s just for a one off, but rather.

[00:14:51] A year round initiative, which is really the opportunity for Web three, right, is is not just the earned media from a stunt, but the consumer insights [00:15:00] and the sort of development of a net new economic and engagement model between brands and their communities.

[00:15:06] Donny: Yeah,I, I completely agree. It’ll eventually be always on, but for the first time, you can’t do always on because you need to run the stunt campaign to see the data.

[00:15:15] Yes. To decide what you’re gonna do in the future. And I think about that, like we are about to launch Brave Search, which is our own private search engine, and we’re gonna launch ads on it. And we are talking to some big agencies and they’re like, can we cut, like, you know, a year long deal? And with all these different brands and we’re the one saying, Thank you, but slow down, let’s just test one brand or two brands for like a month.

[00:15:40] Let’s get some data. Let’s see what the CP are CPCs are, let’s see what the cts are. Like. Let’s get that data so we can understand and inform what a year long partnership would look like. Cuz it’s just too early. I don’t, I wouldn’t even know how to go negotiate a one year when you don’t have any data yet.

[00:15:55] Avery: Yeah, totally. And I think a lot of the web three native brands sort of design [00:16:00] their strategies It’s sort of like a seed round in certain ways, right? Where you buy in early and then you get different access and perks over time. And we’ve seen some brands go in that direction and, and two that I’ll call out, three that I’ll call out would be like Time and their Genesis collection, Budweiser and their Heritage cans and Adidas and their Into the Metaverse, which they explicitly said was a long term program in development in, all three cases.

[00:16:22] I think that’s worked out really well for them. But to your point, it, it’s kind of, building the plane as you’re flying it, right? You don’t have the insight into exactly how it’s gonna work. I really applaud those brands for being brave making a commitment into this space. And, you know, the way that, that Gary did it for V Friends was, an explicit three year commitment, which I think was even probably more strategic because it’s a commitment for a long term experiment that we’re, building together with a group of VRE holders, it is time bound, so it’s not forever.

[00:16:52] Donny: Yeah, that makes sense. I think that, I’m gonna guess, but when Gary did that three year partnership, he had already had some of those insights, as you [00:17:00] call it, or data to see like, we can do this. It probably wasn’t his very first campaign or maybe it was, but uh, I would, I’d imagine he had tested some stuff prior.What have been the most meaningful partnerships and activations that have happened so far in the metaverse that you’ve worked on or that have intrigued

[00:17:15] Avery: you? Yeah, I think the, three I just mentioned are three that I really love are sort of brand explorations and maybe I’ll talk a little bit about some of the native web three brands who I think have done really interesting things.

[00:17:27] Ledgeris a sort of hardware and security brand and I think they’ve done incredible work. I just saw a piece sort of highlighting all the collaborations that they’ve done, with folks like V Friends and also folks like Dead Fellows and emerging artists. I think Ledger is sort of king or queen of the collabs.

[00:17:44] and they’ve really done an incredible. Bolstering this emerging ecosystem while building their own brand through the sort of strategic partnerships. So I love what Ledger’s doing. I think they have the potential to be the apple of the Web three generation. I love what V Friends has done and it’s been fun to [00:18:00] be sort of small part of that as well through pioneering something like V Con, this first token ticket at its.

[00:18:05] Experience so many incredible collabs that bring V Friends characters to the mainstream of the masses. Everyone from Toys R Us to Kim Sw Toys to The Walking the Runway. Pretty incredible. and it’s really just the beginning, actually just today, V Con 2023 was announced in Indianapolis. So there’s a lot of excitement and, buzz around that.

[00:18:25] And the third brand that I’ll say I really admire is art. Art Blocks, is an art platform that’s really pioneer generative art. And the founder a guy called Eric, who goes by snow throw in web three. You know, I think he has just this incredible vision on how generative art can be a leading art category, and it’s been impressive to see just in the past few years, this move from kind of a pet project for a guy who owns a tile store to now being featured in like, internationally claimed museums.

[00:18:54] So Art Blocks is another brand that I think has really done some cool things and innovated, while [00:19:00] sort of building alongside their community of collect.

[00:19:03] Donny: Yeah, that’s great. Not to be down, but just to switch gears for a second, we’ve seen over the past week, tons of layoffs happening. both, Twitter, Facebook, there’s others, and then we’ve even seen some major brands, pause their ads on Twitter.

[00:19:19] And there just seems to be a general, down spend based on like Facebook’s earnings. What are you guys seeing over there as far as ad spends and, and how is this affecting, like, the crypto bear market or the advertising bear market? whatever, you know, which way you wanna go with it.

[00:19:34] Avery: Yeah, it’s a good point. And there’s certainly no denying that we’re in the midst of a lot of economic turmoil and, headwinds and the advertising industry broadly. Advertising is super cyclical and we just talked about sort of pandemic times of the happy hours. Trust me, advertising spend was very down then as well.

[00:19:50] Mm-hmm. , and I think our opportunity is brave marketers, is to study the ship through. Sunny skies and choppy seas. I think we’re going into a [00:20:00] time that’s gonna be very challenging, not just for web three in the crypto industry, but for the tech industry in general. I worked at Google for seven years and for the first time ever Google has paused hiring.

[00:20:11] We’ve seen, companies, everyone from Stripe to Dopper to Coinbase to meta to Twitter doing these major layoffs and it’s obviously a very challenging time. With that, though, I think. Just as I was thinking about it in the Covid times, I think. Challenge is our opportunity because at Vayner we can be faster and more nimble and more creative than a lot of the big ships that are hard to move.

[00:20:36] We’re not as big of a ship, we’re small. So we can navigate quickly and do interesting things that I think are, harder for larger institutions, and agencies and, brands even to pull off. So I think understanding market conditions and being creative around the right way for. Partners to, thrive in this ecosystem is the opportunity for us.

[00:20:56] And ironically, I think that we’ll see some brands really lean [00:21:00] into Web three as trying to figure out the next big thing. Maybe some of these brands never were good at social, right? They, just did it, but they were never very good at it. They never. We’re happy about sort of investing their, their presence.

[00:21:11] And that’s a pretty widespread feeling. most marketers who are like active on some of these social platforms do have issues, whether it’s with the sort of political leanings of the organization or brand safety or whatever it is. So I think that we will actually see some brands really lean in to getting web three, right.

[00:21:29] And that’s, I think going to be one of the major shift that we see in 2023 is we’re seeing institutions who’ve invested in hiring whole teams to understand web three and chart the path for their organization and focus on sort of building in this brave new world versus trying to. put a bandaid over a significant wound as it relates to like what’s happening in, in the world of sort of digital advertising and more traditional web two channels.

[00:21:55] There’s been a number of things over the past year as well. Everything from the IDFA things, which has sort of [00:22:00] dramatically decreased direct response campaigns performance from a measurement perspective to now this. So I think that actually we’re gonna see a few brands, and not everyone, but a few really lean into intentional strategies and web three that set them up for.

[00:22:14] Era of the internet.

[00:22:15] Donny: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. I mean, you’re thinking that like, you know, there was for so many years it was like maybe for 10 years it’s like, this is year of the mobile, this is year of the mobile, and like finally like everyone’s doing mobile advertising. And then it was like Facebook was just starting out as like, this is the year of social, this is the year of social.

[00:22:29] And then like, you know, and then it was like social media departments and like now it’s just part of digital market. It’s not even part of digital marketing, it’s part of marketing. It’s like in the DNA of every single company. Absolutely. Where do you think we are in web three?

[00:22:41] Marketing.And then like what’s your prediction for the future of like how long does it take to get to like the tipping point of web three where it’s just so obvious that everyone’s running it, like the way it was like so obvious to be running mobile campaigns and so obvious to doing social.

[00:22:57] When is it so obvious to be doing web three marketing? [00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Avery: Five to 10 years? I think we’re really early. Yeah. I think that we have some early adopters, but, but broadly, it’s super early and, and sometimes it’s too early for certain companies to be investing or playing, or activating right now, but I think everyone is listening and they’re looking and they’re trying to educate themselves.

[00:23:20] Because maybe they missed mobile and then they miss social and they’re like, all right, I’m not gonna miss this one. Which is actually a sentiment that we hear from a lot of our partners. But I mean, the refrigerator took 50 years to gain mainstream adoption. I don’t think it’ll be 50, but probably like five to 10 before this is really integrated in every marketing organization and, and that sort of inevitability that we feel like for social or.

[00:23:41] Donny: Yeah. The final question is, do you think like web three, is that thing like mobile and social and other things or, and, and is there anything else that would kind of compete with getting, digital audience the way that Web Three and Metaverse and everything else would do it?

[00:23:57] Avery: I think it’s the next big thing.

[00:23:59] Absolutely. [00:24:00] And depending on how you define Web three to us at Vayner Web three is this umbrella term that encompasses metaverse and cryptocurrency and defi and NFTs, all underpinned by blockchain technology. That to us is what Web three is, and that’s a broad definition that’s broader than just mobile devices or, or just sort of social media platforms.

[00:24:17] I think there’s a lot of place to play there. I’m. Probably most particularly bullish on this idea of digital asset ownership, empowered through NFTs. I think the Metaverse is coming, but it’s not here quite yet in this sort of blockchain enabled transparent world that we think of you and I think of when we think about Web three.

[00:24:34] It’s more in this sort of centralized place right now and, and obviously we see. Stuck investing a tremendous amount of money to really crack this sort of hardware market. I’m not sure how that will play out. it’s hard to have a crystal ball on, on that specific thing, but from my perspective, it’s web three is, is the next iteration of the internet that will be empowered, not just by this idea of owning things digitally because we spend all of our times online since Covid, but also by this next generation of consumers who [00:25:00] have natively accustomed themselves, to valuing digital.

[00:25:03] Donny: Great. Yeah, I completely agree. I can’t see anything else that could be as big as web three. I think if we look back, you know, three years, like I had a little side hustle that was doing research into the blockchain technology and how it’ll affect digital advertising. I was so narrow focused on blockchain for, programmatic ads.

[00:25:24] I don’t know if that will ever, well, maybe Brave will make that happen, but like all the startups that we’re doing that, like hardly any of them exist. But it’s been, it, what it really morphed into is everything that you’re saying. It’s everything that you can do with NFTs, everything with metaverse, everything with, you know, crypto inside of, you know, websites or whatever it is.

[00:25:42] It’s, it’s all of those things, right? All by blockchain and not necessarily just, Making programmatic ads, on blockchains.

[00:25:49] Avery: Yeah, and I think when people think about blockchain, they just think about like NFTs and cryptocurrency. those are two little tiny parts of the bigger opportunity with blockchain, I think blockchain is so [00:26:00] inevitable to be the future, but more in an invisible way than a consumer.

[00:26:04] first way, the same way like electricity. People don’t know like, what powers my computer? I know I plug it in and it starts charging. Right? I think we’re gonna see blockchain be a tremendous force in technology and NFTs and cryptocurrency and the consumer facing part of that is like a very, very tiny little part of, what blockchain can be.

[00:26:24] But I agree with you. I think I remember buying some of those programmatic ads powered by blockchain. It was so small and the scale was tiny, but what it. Sort of showcasing was this opportunity, which is really profound.

[00:26:37] Donny: Yeah, I, I completely agree. It’s, it’s blockchain will be Intel inside in your computer.

[00:26:43] Like you don’t know how Intel in your computer actually works, but you do know that there is like an Intel chip in there. I think it’s gonna be like that. Like you will know that. Oh, there’s some blockchain element to this technology, but that’s all you’re gonna know. If you don’t know how it actually works, and you don’t need to know [00:27:00] how it actually works, you’re just gonna know that there’s a blockchain element to whatever you know you’re using.

[00:27:05] My last point, I was just thinking about this, is that like three years ago it was like real estate’s gonna be all in the blockchain in the next five years, and all the shipping containers that go out there are gonna be on blockchain and like here we are three, four years later and like I haven’t seen.

[00:27:21] I haven’t seen any of that yet. I think it’s, to your point, probably still another five to 10 years that things are really humming on the blockchain and, and industries that are outside of finance. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. So can you nominate another brief marketer that should be on the show?

[00:27:37] Avery: Yes, I can.

[00:27:38] I have several ideas for you. One sort of brave marker that I think would be great is a lady called Julie Garo who leads Blockchain, metaverse and NFTs at Anheuser Bush. I think Julie is amazing. And second, I’d like to nominate, mag C, who’s actually an investor. She just launched her fund called Double Down, but she spent, a lot of her career in sort of this world of marketing.

[00:27:58] So I’d like to nominate [00:28:00] those. Awesome.

[00:28:01] Donny: Avery. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We loved having you on and appreciate your insight into the Metaverse. Thank

[00:28:10] Avery: you. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure, Donny. And thank you everybody for tuning in and listening to us chat.

[00:28:17] Follow along at Vayner three on all social platforms. We do a lot of thought leadership pieces, a lot of sort of hot takes from the industry, and of course, showcase some of the work that we’re doing. you can also follow me at AAC kini. Same thing across all social platforms.

[00:28:30] Donny: Great. Perfect. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Awesome.

[00:28:33] Thanks so much for listening to another episode of The Brave Marketer Podcast. Four quick things before you go. Number one, if you like what you’ve heard, it’d be really awesome if you’d rate us.

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[00:29:09] Number three musical credits. Go to my brother Ari Devor. And finally number four, go use brave@brave.com and we’ll see you next time on The Brave Marketer.