[00:00:00] Donny: Many of the most memorable brand campaigns have been driven by cutting edge marketers who are driving innovation in massive growth for some of the most beloved brands. This season, we’re getting a fresh perspective and highlighting women, marketers who are making an impact in both crypto and mainstream brands as always we’ll discuss the most pressing challenges and opportunities facing our industry.

[00:00:25] While uncovering the brave marketing moments that have led these marketers to where they are today, hosted by brave software and me Donny Devor.

[00:00:38] You’re listening to a new episode of the brave marketer podcast. And this one we’re gonna talk to Claire cart. And Claire is the VP of marketing and community at Mina foundation. And that’s a non-profit steward of Meina protocol. And she’s been with the project for a while since 2019 for three years, as one of the first non-engineering team members.

[00:00:59] And [00:01:00] it’s helped to foster an adoption and growth through the Testnet and domain net, the token offering. The SDK beta. We’ll talk about what the SDK is in this episode and is currently gearing up her team for the full SDK launch. And then prior to Meina foundation, she was the head of community at ripple.

[00:01:17] And one of the first market is at SoFi where she oversaw the founding of many of the core marketing functions through four years of rapid growth. You’re gonna love this episode because we’re gonna discuss what zero knowledge proof is and what it means, and the practical utility of it. We’re gonna talk about just in time marketing and the go to market strategy and how they’re leveraging this as a strategy for their upcoming SDK launch.

[00:01:41] Again, we’re gonna explain what the SDK is and then their rebrand story and how it actually started with getting sued by a larger player in crypto that had their former. But before we hop into today’s episode, we wanna highlight our brave pick of the week. Every episode we choose a brand that has run an ad campaign with brave as our pick.

[00:01:59] [00:02:00] And this one, we’re talking about blockchain futurist and they’re Canada’s largest crypto event taking place in Toronto on August 9th through 10th. They ran a sponsored image with brave and they gave away 250 free conference tickets to brave users. And the reason that they ran with brave is they wanted to promote their event to our audience who are crypto enthusiast and would be a perfect fit for this event.

[00:02:22] And so with no further ado, here’s this week’s episode of the brave marketer.

[00:02:28] Claire, welcome to the brave marketer podcast. How are you today?

[00:02:39] Claire: I’m good. Thanks so much for having me Donnie.

[00:02:41] Donny: Well, why don’t we start with Mina foundation. So for those people who don’t know much about Mina foundation, can you give a general overview?

[00:02:49] Claire: Yeah, sure. Somina foundation is, um, non-profit organization in the Meina protocol ecosystem and, you know, a lot of different orgs working on MEA protocol, but our. Mission [00:03:00] is to really, you know, steward the adoption of the protocol and, you know, build more awareness about and mean a protocol and what it can do and all the benefits for it, and also really advocate for community members.

[00:03:10] So we spend a lot of our time doing things to touch marketing work.

[00:03:14] Donny: And to just dig a little bit deeper into that, can you talk a little bit about your role?

[00:03:19] Claire: Yeah, I’m happy to. So I joined the team a little over three years ago and I was originally at the lab that incubated the protocol, and then we moved over to the foundation.

[00:03:30] So throughout my time at the project, I’ve had the opportunity to really lead and build a team that’s focused on marketing communications as well as community and developer relations. So a little bit. Broad umbrella there, but you know, my basic job at the end of the day is make sure more people know about Mina and make sure that it’s gonna be like a good experience for them to check out our community, going to be easy to use and that ultimately they can move towards building and deploying, um, an app on our network.[00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Donny: That’s awesome. And what’s the most exciting thing that you’re working on

[00:04:02] Claire: right now? I think there’s two things. So one Mina has always been like very focused on decentralization. I think our technology kind of aligns nicely with, with that philosophy. Me personally, I think a lot of projects in the crypto space, you know, sort of see that as something they’ll work on later after they get adoption and I don’t always see projects prioritizing it, which is their decision.

[00:04:24] But for me, It’s like something really important. It’s one of the reasons I came to the project just felt very values aligned with that. So we continue to work on decentralizing our community, um, our ecosystem, making programs so that community members can participate in and get grants and do things like that.

[00:04:42] So that’s always really exciting to me because. Just bringing more people into web three and helping them find success and find where they kind of fit into things. And then just building a bigger movement other than just, just the folks kind of working day to day on Mina, which is, which is exciting. The other thing [00:05:00] that we’re working on that’s really exciting is we’re.

[00:05:02] Preparing for the launch of our SDK. So Mina is gonna be the first project with programmable zero knowledge, which will do a lot of cool things that, you know, as zero knowledge, like just for scaling cannot do. So it’ll allow developers to kind of put zero knowledge right into their applications and kind of play with it.

[00:05:19] It’s obviously like a really new paradigm. It’s in type script, which is super exciting. I think we’re gonna be able to reach like a lot of people who, you know, maybe find solidity too big of a barrier. So yeah, just getting ready to launch our SDK and preparing all the marketing for it, figuring out, you know, how we go to market with it.

[00:05:36] Especially given the new market conditions. It’s kind of what gets me out of. Bed in the morning and what keeps me up at night. So , I don’t know what to make of that, but it it’s fun and I love it.

[00:05:45] Donny: Yeah. And so for the people who don’t know, so the way I would think about zero knowledge proof, it’s like confirming an event happens without knowing who actually performed the event and you kind of flip a coin a thousand times, and then it basically always [00:06:00] 50 50.

[00:06:00] And so there’s basically like that type of technology built in. How, how would you describe zero knowledge proof?

[00:06:06] Claire: Oh, that , that’s maybe the hardest question in my job. Yeah. As, as your knowledge, proof is like kind of the computational ability to prove that something is true without revealing the underlying information.

[00:06:18] So right. If we wanna think about how someone might, you know, use this or how it might benefit their lives. We could think about maybe applying for like a mortgage, right. And wanting to show the bank. Yes, I have enough money. Yes. My credit score meets your qualifications, but maybe you don’t wanna give all your bank statements where they can see everything you purchase.

[00:06:38] You know, they’re gonna store that data, that data might get leaked. And so it would allow you to kind of meet their qualifications without exposing all of your personal and private data. Eventually giving it to them to be a part of their database, which we all know has a lot of problems for like user privacy, with all the packs and leaks and things like that.

[00:06:55] So that’s how I describe zero knowledge. And also I think how it can benefit people, just [00:07:00] one of the use cases, but one that I feel has like a lot of potential to help

[00:07:03] Donny: people. Right. And then the second term you used was SDK, which we was, uh, software development. K and that’s, I think of that as like a, like an extension, like a browser extension.

[00:07:13] Can you kind of explain how, you know, your SD.

[00:07:17] Claire: Yeah, sure. So thankfully I’m not on our product team, cuz those folks are just absolute experts. And I feel like whatever I say is not gonna be a hundred percent accurate according to them, but you know, it stands for a software development kit for anyone who’s not familiar with it.

[00:07:30] And the general ideas it’s like. All the kind of tools and scripts that somebody would need to program zero knowledge. And so, yeah, that can come in the form of like a browser extension that just allows you to kind of easily, you know, build the code and bolt it onto things. So it’s really like the developer’s toolkit for, um, being able to build with Mina.

[00:07:49] And I think it’s already fairly easy to build on Mina right now. You know, there’s a lot of competition for developer mind share and for developers to just get their hands dirty and your tech. And so I think [00:08:00] the easier we can make it the better. So if someone today wants to dig through all of our docs and do all that stuff, there’s a lot that they can build, but the SDK will just make it like a lot more accessible, a lot easier and really productize, programmable your knowledge.

[00:08:14] Donny: Right? So you have the SDK of the zero knowledge proof. And then, so what’s the go to market strategy.

[00:08:21] Claire: The way we’re kind of approaching this and maybe other like crypto marketers will appreciate this, but you know, we are building something completely new. And so the development timeline tends to shift as the team works on it, and then discovers, you know, new, um, engineering challenges that they didn’t anticipate.

[00:08:37] Mm-hmm this has been, you know, something that’s like challenging in all of tech, I think is just. Knowing exactly when the product will launch, that makes it really hard to plan a marketing strategy because you can’t maybe book the inventory you want or work with the creators you want. Cause you can’t give them a hard date.

[00:08:52] The way that we kind of mitigate that is, you know, just doing kind of like just in time marketing. So working with the engineering and product team and telling them. [00:09:00] Look, whenever you all feel, this is ready to get out the door, give me a couple weeks, heads up. We’re gonna have developed a bunch of assets and get ready to push this out.

[00:09:09] And then once it’s pushed out to the market in a soft launch, you know, we can do like a, a more integrated campaign in the next quarter. So that’s kind of how we’ve mitigated, like working with the development timeline, given that, you know, marketing. Require some planning and commitments to be made. And then I think in terms of the general go to market, so we’re starting first with our core community.

[00:09:30] Um, there’s a lot of people who have been excited for programmable zero knowledge for a while. And then we’re also leaning in really heavily to conferences and places where we, you know, know developers or gathering. I think the conference circuit is just on fire right now, especially after everybody being in lockdown for so long.

[00:09:46] So we’re leaning heavily on like, you know, Developer content enablement tools to help developers, you know, like sandboxes, help them experiment. Also just conferences for awareness, you know, advertising on different podcasts where we know our [00:10:00] developer audience is hanging out. So things like that, but it’s, I I’ll say it’s kind of evolving it’s it’s in the works.

[00:10:05] We’re not completely completely ready to ship it, but, but yeah, it’s coming together.

[00:10:11] Donny: That’s amazing. Seems like definitely conferences are in full, full swing. Yeah. COVID is not over but the conferences and the restaurants and everything is, is, is back in full swing. So it makes sense that you’d go to that very much.

[00:10:22] So yeah, you go to conferences where developers are at, because that, that is really your, your market. And then how do you, is that the same way you grow the C.

[00:10:32] Claire: Our community has evolved over the years. So, you know, as an L one, like one of the biggest challenges about leading marketing and an L one is you have these different audiences that you have to market to kind of as the project evolves.

[00:10:43] So at first we were really focused on developing like a node operator community to get, you know, like kind of a grassroots movement of people actually, um, staking securing operating the network so that it would be decentralized. So we were first with those folks and, you know, that was like a whole different [00:11:00] game growing that community.

[00:11:01] I mean, node operators are just, they’re different from developers. They want different things, but yeah, now we’re focused on growing our developer community as well as growing our contributor community. So that’s people who are, you know, doing everything from building tooling, like for example, block explorers and things like that.

[00:11:17] To people who are like content creators, who, you know, might wanna. Do some like live coding tutorials or things where they can, um, sort of get under the hood with the technology. So maybe not like the, you know, more price focused content creators that we mostly think about in crypto. These are like more niche content creators who are, who are basically like li live coding and getting into different tech and sort of telling their audiences what they think about it.

[00:11:43] So those are two communities that, that we really wanna grow the developers as well as diversity of creators.

[00:11:49] Donny: Got it. So the premise of this podcast is all about brave marketing moments. It’s like when somebody in their career, in their job, like just exhibited a ton of [00:12:00] bravery and took a risk to achieve a goal, what would you say your brave marketing moment is.

[00:12:06] Claire: Yeah, this is a great question. Um, so I think for me, the one that comes to mind is actually fairly recently, like after I had joined Mina, which was originally called Coda, C O D a, I woke up to this like block article saying that like a, a very large incumbent in like crypto was suing us over our name, the Coda name, or the me name.

[00:12:31] The Coda name. Yeah. Nina didn’t exist at that point in terms of name, the technology existed, but the, the name didn’t exist. We were called Coda. And so, yeah, I wake up to this on my phone and I’m like, wait, what? So, you know, get on the phone with lawyers, general counsel. And they’re like, yeah, they’re suing us.

[00:12:47] And I knew a little bit about this company, um, from some prior experiences and just like, knew that they were pretty well capitalized and probably ready to litigate. If it came to that. And so I was new on the team [00:13:00] and I had to convince a team entirely of engineers who had come up with the name and loved the name and had all these associations and meetings tied to it that we needed to walk away from this name as soon as possible.

[00:13:11] And we needed to go through like a total rebrand. So, I mean, that, that was tough, but like seeing it from a marketing strategy standpoint, we hadn’t launched yet. We were still in Testnet. So as many people knew about Mina, I mean, it was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of who would know about us in the future.

[00:13:27] And I didn’t kind of wanna go into launching our main net, the token sale that was on coin list, you know, exchange listings, all of those things that projects go through under a name that we couldn’t be sure we were gonna be able to invest in from a brand stand. And then also at the time, I think I was one of O only few non-engineers advocating across the whole company that we should really take on like brand strategy work to figure out what is it that we stand for?

[00:13:51] Like, who are our audiences? What promises do we wanna make to them? And, you know, doing some work that I think was really, really new to an engineer, but we [00:14:00] needed them to be involved in because, you know, they were the heart and soul of the company. So I, I definitely, there were some heated conversations and definitely some like, wait, what the heck is that?

[00:14:10] And, and a lot of people who just wanted to fight to keep the name, because they didn’t like that this bigger player was sort of putting their thumb on us. Right. And so really having to advocate from a marketing point of view, why it would be more strategic to walk away, find something new. And then commit our resources there.

[00:14:26] Donny: So there was, was there like a specific strategy or tactic that you executed to go ahead and change the name and, and do all that?

[00:14:35] Claire: I mean, brand strategy work takes like a really long time if you do it properly. Right. And I think that was also part of what made it like. Difficult in something I had to advocate for.

[00:14:44] So we took like four to six months to really, kind of strip everything away. Talk to the engineers, talk to the community, understand more about. What they really felt were Mina’s values, what we stood for, what they wanted to see from us. And then, you know, we scaffolded everything on the marketing [00:15:00] team, product team, everything off of those brand values around what are we really trying to deliver?

[00:15:04] Like who is Mina in the world? What can we mean to, to web three, to our audience and just continuing to try to deliver on that.

[00:15:13] Donny: Were you allowed to use the code of name to say that you changed it? You couldn’t use it. No, we couldn’t use it any without her. So that’s like hard to say, like formally known as, but you can’t even say formally known as, so you basically had to like start from scratch.

[00:15:27] Claire: Yeah, I forget exactly. I mean, you know, there was obviously an agreement where we agreed to abandon the name. So I forget the exact details of the agreement, but right. You know, there were some concessions around, like, I think we were able to use like the redirect off of Coda for like a period of time so that we felt like, you know, all of that old traffic that we like direct traffic that we would get, we could redirect it.

[00:15:48] And then, so there were some concessions that were made and I think, you know, we got to a good place with it, but. Yeah in announcing it and it was sort of like, Hey, Mina exists. I don’t know. It was really, it was, it was really, really tough. Yeah. [00:16:00] But I think we did it at the right time. Like if we would’ve tried to fight that we wouldn’t have known what name we could go forward with.

[00:16:05] And we just immediately pivoted to Meina Mina, Mina, Mina. And I think, you know, we’re still in the process of, of building our brand recognition, but it’s good to at least have like a clear. Way forward, right. As opposed to wondering, well, what name can I really market this under? And interestingly, like, I now get approached by so many teams in web three who are going through this exact same thing who are pre-launch, who picked a name that was like, Okay.

[00:16:31] The founders think it’s cool, right? The founders love this name, but then they’re, pre-launched, they’re working. They start to get a little bit of press and someone else comes in and is like, that’s our name? And you can’t use it. And so I now advise a ton of companies like who are in this specific situation, which is so interesting that like, this is its own little niche in marketing and web three.

[00:16:51] Donny: Wow. That’s amazing. That’s so crazy. So you’re marketing in L one, , a layer one, which I’m sure. Presents its own challenges. What [00:17:00] makes that unique versus I guess, I mean, this you’re in the B2B world versus B2C. So talk to us about the unique challenges that you’re going through advertising at L one.

[00:17:10] Claire: Yeah. I mean, the way I think about it, it’s like at different stages, it’s kind of B2C, not really. It’s kind of B2B, it’s kind of B2 D it’s, you know, it’s a lot of, it’s a lot of different things. And I think as a marketer that just requires you to kind of. Be flexible wear a lot of hats. But I think like the biggest thing is I mentioned this before, but you know, if you’re building an L one from the ground up, like the audience changes, you know, in order to launch your network, you need to market to an audience of people who are gonna boost wrap it.

[00:17:36] Those people are really different than people who might, you know, be interested in developing an app. And so you have to be ready to kind of evolve with these audiences and get hyper focused on them and then, you know, figure out how. Continue to support them, but kind of move on mentally and team operations wise onto the next audience.

[00:17:53] So that’s always like an ongoing challenge is just to kind of really switch contacts. I think the other thing about building an L one that’s [00:18:00] challenging as a marketer is like, first of all, you’re joining with a bunch of engineers, right. And it’s super technical and you’re trying to help them tell that story of look, not everyone is gonna read our code base, like from.

[00:18:12] Character one to the last. So we’re gonna have to tell people what this is about and what’s the right altitude for that. I think working at a consumer facing company can be a lot easier cuz you know, you’re trying to reach consumers, but when you’re developers trying to reach developers, I think sometimes it’s like really hard to establish that altitude of where to tell the story at.

[00:18:30] And then the other thing that I think is challenging is like building an L one. I mean. Depending on like how you wanna go about it. You know, you are at its core building a new protocol and you’re, you’re bringing new technology into the world. That development cycle can be really long. So just figuring out how you keep audiences excited and engaged.

[00:18:49] And sustain them through what can be a very long development cycle. And, you know, also like you wanna talk about the benefits of the technology. You wanna get people excited, but you don’t wanna over promise. I think crypto’s full of, [00:19:00] big promises and maybe then people get a little disappointed.

[00:19:02] Right. Which is natural. And so how do you walk that line between hyping, the project that you believe in. Versus, you know, setting realistic expectations as well. So all those things are tough when you’re working for a really long time to bring something to market. And I think all ones like fit squarely in that.

[00:19:18] Donny: Yeah. And everything gets so delayed. Like you think it’s gonna launch an X date. Yeah. And it’s, never that date. It’s always Y date, have you been in a situation where you’ve kind of promised a delivery and then the engineers just get caught behind? Is, is that a problem that you see a.

[00:19:32] Claire: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:19:34] I mean, I have so much respect for all the engineers working like in the Meana ecosystem, but as a marketer, like knowing your launch date, so you can plan that that’s like critical that everything revolves around that. Right. So when that shifting, I mean, yeah, it can, it can be really tense. I think if you don’t have that good relationship with engineering, it can be really, really tense.

[00:19:55] But yeah, when we were in Testnet and working towards launching our main net, you know, we [00:20:00] faced significant. Delays. And of course we wanna keep the community up to date, but then after a while you’re like, okay, well, the dates that we give, you know, we’re having to push them out. And so how do we kind of manage that as well?

[00:20:11] We wanna set expectations with the community, but we also don’t wanna continue to not meet them. And so all of those things, I think are big marketing and communications challenges. Yeah. Yeah. Specifically with

[00:20:24] Donny: all ones. Taking a step out of Mina and just thinking of it as like a, a marketer, what would you say is like the most critical foundational marketing strategy , for crypto marketers in general?

[00:20:37] Claire: So again, I was, kind of like beating this storm earlier, but I am such a big believer in brand strategy and. Knowing other marketers in crypto, like I cannot think of another word that’s like more just cite to their brain. Like when I say brand strategy, people are like, what? Like that’s such fluff.

[00:20:55] You know that, I mean, that’s the reaction I get. I totally get why people think that. [00:21:00] But I think, yeah, if you kind of strip away maybe assumptions that you have, like a brand strategy is really getting down to the core of like, who are we, what are we trying to deliver? Who’s it for? What are we gonna promise them?

[00:21:12] It’s like, if you’re a person, you know, understanding who you are as a person. Right, right. That’s super valuable. Like everyone needs that. And that’s what brand strategy work is for projects or companies or brands. So I think like all projects in crypto can really benefit from this, especially because. So much a brand strategy focuses on like the promise that you’re making to the market and how you’re gonna show up.

[00:21:33] And I think in an industry where, you know, People are having to close shop and people don’t trust because, you know, trust has been broken. I think just focusing on what is it that we’re promising and try to deliver on that promise through all your business decisions, products, you know, people, marketing engineering can be like a really powerful tool for marketers in emerging technology spaces, which, you know, web three is like the definition.

[00:21:59] Donny: Yeah. Yeah. [00:22:00] Do you have like a pet peeve in, , crypto marketing?

[00:22:03] Claire: do I have to pick one no, you can have a couple. Sure. no, it’s okay. I mean, I love this space. I think I’m, I’m going on year five of being in web three, doing marketing. So I definitely think some of my old pet peeves have kind of been like worked out, which is awesome.

[00:22:18] It’s awesome to see like marketing, um, is a function maturing in web three, but I think my biggest pet peeve at the moment is. Just conflating like a community . And an audience. And this is something that I feel so passionate about. I will like, you know, grab people at conferences and be like, please, we need to discuss this.

[00:22:38] You know, when you think about a community, it’s like a group of people. Who share certain like values or mindsets they’re coming together to accomplish something mm-hmm, , they’re communicating with each other. Whereas an audience is just, you know, it’s me communicating to a group of people and those group of people aren’t connected.

[00:22:53] They’re not trying to get anything done. They might not share the same values. I know this kind of seems like maybe semantics, but I [00:23:00] think. Crypto is really born out of this desire to have more community participation and ownership. And so, you know, I think that word for me is really sacred. Like if we think about what communities can do and how powerful it is, I think then calling everything a community just doesn’t do communities justice, like.

[00:23:16] The amazing communities we see out there like Ethereum, I mean, they’re doing amazing things together towards a common goal, right? I, I think I would just encourage marketers to think more about community versus audience. I think there’s some strategies that work so well for audiences that don’t work for communities and vice versa, but really just protecting that word, cuz I think it should be core to what all of us are building and if we confuse it with everything else, it’s gonna lose its power.

[00:23:40] Yeah, I totally

[00:23:41] Donny: agree. People are like, oh, we have 10,000 Twitter followers. Our community is so big. It’s like, that’s just an audience. Like if you totally go and have a conference and 10,000 people show up or a thousand people show up and they’re actively involved and they’re building and they’re developers and on your platform and [00:24:00] you’re using the out.

[00:24:01] And they’re commenting, and they’re like, like that’s a community people that are, I almost think of it. Like, yeah, like a community is like a two way conversation where like an audience is just a one way conversation. And I think that people think, yeah, that because they have the microphone and because they have 2000 people on telegram and they keep sending out messages that they have a community, but it’s not a community.

[00:24:24] Claire: Yeah. And that’s not to knock people who built great audiences. Those are amazing and very valuable. Yeah. But they’re one type of structure. Right. , and I think some of those people might convert into being a community member, but I think just being really clear about that and kind of holding sacred, the power of community is something that is something that’s really meaningful to me.

[00:24:44] Yeah.

[00:24:44] Donny: That’s great. Do you have advice for emerging marketers who are looking to be more brave and take more risks on their job?

[00:24:52] Claire: I know that, this is probably the advice everyone gives. I don’t think it’s so unique, but I do think that marketing is part art and part [00:25:00] science mm-hmm . And when you’re working on teams that are highly technical, you know, And this is right. There’s a lot of push to be like data science. You know, we wanna see the data behind this and that’s very fair. But when you’re working with an emerging project, sometimes you’re like, well, I have no data because we have no users yet. And we have to find the first couple. So how do we get that going?

[00:25:20] Right. And so I think just being able to trust that art side of marketing and saying, I just have a gut instinct in intuition and advocating for that and seeing it as a legitimate perspective, I think especially on highly technical teams is so important and balancing them obviously. But I think, you know, if you kind of get stuck, seeing marketing is like an engineering function.

[00:25:41] I think it’s very hard to succeed, cuz so much of marketing is being creative and like some pattern matching. You might not be able to necessarily explain to another person. So, yeah, I, I think if marketers do that, they’ll be a lot braver. And then advice. I mean, if anyone’s looking to get into web three, like obviously, you know, if you’re reading the news, it might seem [00:26:00] like a bad time, but I actually think it’s the perfect time to get into the industry.

[00:26:04] I don’t know if you ever read the lecture capital developer report. Have you seen that? No. Okay. Anybody who wants to check it out? It’s like an amazing thing that electric capital who’s like a venture capital firm in the space puts out every year, but it looks at GitHub commits, you know, per project and per year.

[00:26:19] And it just kind of looks at contributors in the space developers. And what we see is like in bull markets, a ton of people come into the space, but they all stay. And so right now we basically got this huge influx of people and they’re all still here and they all still wanna build. And so a lot of good work is gonna go on.

[00:26:36] So anyone who’s like thinking about dipping their toe into web three and wants to do marketing, there’s still a lot of need for it. And I think it’s a great time, cuz like the signal to noise ratio has really like balanced out. I just think it’s an awesome time to join the industry, even though like the maybe, you know, headlines don’t make it seem as

[00:26:53] Donny: such.

[00:26:54] Yeah. I was just listening to the bad crypto podcast. And they were actually saying that like, you know, early [00:27:00] on when you’re like discovering crypto, you’re like comparing crypto to Fiat and you’re like, you’ve grown up being like a Fiat believer and then you like discover crypto and you’re like, kind of going back and forth and you’re maybe like you’re wary of it.

[00:27:13] But once you really go down the rabbit hole and understand crypto. Like you never go back. It’s not like, oh, now I understand crypto. No, but I still believe in like, you know, the government issuing of money and interest rates raising it, like, and, and like, you know, the dilution of money, like you just, never go back to that side.

[00:27:30] And I think that’s what you’re saying

[00:27:31] Claire: as well. Yeah, definitely. I mean, , I think the people who come in who are really serious minded, like wanna build something here, they end up staying no matter what the market is doing. And I think, you know, anyone who’s been in this space for a while, like you ride these things out and you know that the work continues, the industry keeps growing.

[00:27:49] I think every cycle we all become stronger. So yeah, it’s just like a, a perfect time to jump in if you’ve been sort of on the sidelines, but like crypto

[00:27:57] Donny: curious, Yeah, the only [00:28:00] problem is there’s layoffs going on and there are, there are shrinking. And so I feel like the competition for good crypto marketing jobs is gonna be tougher because a lot of the bigger companies, I won’t name specific ones, but they’re having layoffs and so true.

[00:28:15] Claire: Yeah. Yeah. Makes it harder. Yeah, that definitely is another angle to it. For sure. And I shouldn’t, discount that. Yeah. I think just at least from what I’ve seen, I think the smaller project. Who were fighting for talent during the bull market. And like, you know, in a lot of cases, losing out to those bigger players are still hiring, still have ton of open roles and are still doing really good work.

[00:28:36] So if anybody’s listening and they’re like thinking about getting in, that’s where I would

[00:28:40] Donny: start. Yeah. And they say the best time to build is during a down market. So yeah, it’s when everything kind of gets it’s so quiet. Quiet. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It’s

[00:28:50] Claire: quiet

[00:28:51] Donny: in a good way. And then they’ll be like surfs up and the market’s bullish again, and everyone

[00:28:55] Claire: will go wild.

[00:28:56] Everyone will go wild and marketing inventory will quadruple in

[00:28:59] Donny: price. [00:29:00] Yeah, exactly. Claire,

[00:29:02] Claire: thank you so, so much for being on the brave marketer podcast and how can the audience get in touch with.

[00:29:08] Yeah, well, it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me. So I am Claire with a C cart with a K across like pretty much anywhere you can reach me.

[00:29:16] So if you wanna DM me on telegram, if you wanna DM me on Twitter, it’s Claire with a C cart with a K.

[00:29:22] Donny: Great. Well, yeah. Thank you so much. And we’ll chat soon.

[00:29:26] Claire: Yeah. Thanks Donny. It’s awesome. Really fun. Yeah. Bye. Bye.

[00:29:32] Donny: Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the brave marketer podcast. Four quick things before you go.

[00:29:38] Number one, if you like what you’ve heard, it’d be really awesome. If you would rate us or write us a review on your podcast player, and if you didn’t like what you’ve heard, then don’t worry about it. Number two. If you would like to advertise to Braves 60 million users and have a budget of $10,000 or more simply email [00:30:00] us@asalesatbrave.com.

[00:30:00] That’s ad S a L E s@brave.com and let us know you’re our podcast listener for 25% discount. Number three, musical credits. Go to my brother Ari Devorne. And finally, number four, go use brave@brave.com and we will see you next time on the brave marketer.