[00:00:00] Donny Dvorin: The world is waking up to the power of crypto. And we are seeing this with new NFT and token launches every day, all using blockchain technologies. We’re also seeing huge marketing spends by crypto exchanges and platforms. And so this season, we are speaking to the marketing leaders of those crypto companies hosted by brave software in me, Donny to Warren.

[00:00:26] Welcome back everyone. Today, we are kicking off season four of the brave marketer podcast, and you’re really going to like this episode because we are interviewing one of the biggest names in crypto,

[00:00:39] crypto.com and their CMO, Steven caliphates. And they have been all over the place with the naming rights to the staples center, their deal with Matt Damon.

[00:00:50] You’ll see them on tons of different sports leagues wearing their t-shirts. And we’re going to talk about that in today’s episode, he’s also a two time Emmy award winner, and he began his [00:01:00] career in the film and TV industry. I spent over two decades working with the world’s most popular platforms, brands and contents.

[00:01:05] Providers around the world. And I think you’re going to like this episode a lot, because it’s talking about controversial and bold marketing messages and why it’s important to take a stance and how crypto.com is laser focused on having brand recognition and what types of partnerships are integrated to get there.

[00:01:21] And it’s really about stories. I have this line that I always say facts, tell and stories, sell, and Steven really epitomizes how important the story is and why it’s important to. do that to reach the global audience. hope you enjoy this episode of the brave marketer.

[00:01:37] Stephen. Welcome to the brave marketer podcast. How are you doing today? I’m

[00:01:48] Steven: good. Thank you.

[00:01:50] Donny Dvorin: it’s so good to have you on now you are working on so many exciting things. I mean, you’ve just been in the press so much between the staple center, that campaign with [00:02:00] Matt Damon. that may have seen like ages ago, cause I’m sure you’re planning those things ages ago.

[00:02:04] So what’s the most exciting thing that you’re working on right now.

[00:02:07] Steven: really for me is, a team builder, it’s building the team, yes, we’ve done a lot of really interesting, partnerships that, I’m extremely proud of and that took a ton of work to make happen. but. Building out the team and working with our partners to activate, around the world and really thinking about our plan for 2022, that that’s where most of the focus is now.

[00:02:27] Got

[00:02:27] Donny Dvorin: it. So when you’re saying, building out the team, many on your marketing team now?

[00:02:32] Steven: we have, I think about 75 people.

[00:02:35] Donny Dvorin: Oh, wow.

[00:02:36] Steven: Not exactly sure about executive, the target number. but you know, it’ll get bigger.

[00:02:42] Donny Dvorin: Our podcast is about brief marketing moments. It’s all about a time when somebody exhibited bravery or took a risk in their role. What’s your brave marketing moment as you think about your time past year and a half@crypto.com,

[00:02:55] Steven: I guess you could say. Yeah, some people perceived a risk with align [00:03:00] fortune favors.

[00:03:01] Because of just how definitive it is. but, for me, like that’s what marketing is. Like, you have to have an opinion, and we, as a company have an opinion, a fortune favors, the brave is genuinely not just a tagline. It’s how we live. It’s how we see the world at that at the company. and, and that spot that really introduced our brand to the world and introduced our company in many ways to the world.

[00:03:24] it really. Captures how we approach the world, how we think about crypto in the world. this moment right now that we’re in, right where, we have the benefit. Most of us working at this company have the benefit of having been alive and actually quite active during the early days of the internet.

[00:03:40] when people told us not to pay attention, I mean, as, as much as I loved my time at HBO, I left HBO in 2007, not because I fell out of love with film or storytelling, but because, at the time HBO was convinced that the internet, wasn’t a thing that YouTube wasn’t going to be a thing that Netflix was a joke.

[00:03:57] and everything I tried to do and [00:04:00] to. Have the company lean into it? I was told no, in the late nineties, when I was, messing around with the internet as a kid, people were like, why are you wasting your time with this? this isn’t real. And it’s like, no, no, no.

[00:04:10] Like, like this is it. and so today we feel that at that same crossroads where we’re not just tinkering around with crypto anymore, the actual applications are here. and I think the world is starting to realize that. And so. I guess you could say it was, it was a brave moment to introduce the brand and the way we did, because you never know how people are going to react.

[00:04:29] but the reception has just been overwhelmingly

[00:04:31] Donny Dvorin: positive.

[00:04:31] and what we really liked about the line fortune favors, the brave is that we didn’t write it. it was something that the Romans came up with thousands of years ago, and that it’s a statement that, has remained true and remained on people’s minds. And people use it to this.

[00:04:45] Steven: And it has the same resonance that it did way back when it was first uttered, thousands of years ago, which is to say that, when you’re on the brink of something new and you know where you need to go and you’re trying to chart a new. But people [00:05:00] around you are saying, don’t do that.

[00:05:02] not even because it’s strange or whatever, but because it’s not what everybody’s doing today. Right. And there’s just like, in the first scene of the spot where, there’s a, there’s a guy next to a ship, we have vignettes that we released off the back of the core spot.

[00:05:16] And the vignette for that piece is Magellan set sail without a map because he was the map maker. Right. So for a lot of people. going out way back when, on a ship, into the scary ocean that people thought was flat and you’d fall over the other side, like don’t do that, but he was the matchmaker, right?

[00:05:34] Like he had to figure out where we’re going so that we can all go forward. Right. And, just like, in the vignette for the astronauts, the vignette is, you know, those who follow in the footsteps of others never take steps like these. Right. And it’s, it’s that same.yeah.

[00:05:47] Going into space can be scary for some, but it’s the obvious step for many others. And so, fortune favors, the brave is the thing that all of the people who take those big steps, remind themselves of, and have reminded themselves for thousands of [00:06:00] years. And so we felt like it was such a perfect, just subs texts to the story that we’re trying to tell.

[00:06:06] Yeah.

[00:06:06] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. You guys have seemed to climb into the number one slot. And the crypto worlds. in many instances I’ve seen your posts on LinkedIn, about the app store, and it seems that you guys have become the brand and not just because of the URL, crypto.com, just in many of the statistics out there.

[00:06:26] what has led you to that number one slot?

[00:06:28] Steven: you know, sometimes people say, oh, it’s all just marketing. I don’t think it is. for some DTC brands where they’re selling a commodity product, it is just marketing, right?

[00:06:37] Like there’s, you know, like what makes away like such a popular suitcase? It’s not necessarily better than Ramoa or to me, but they have great marketing and, and they outsource a lot of stuff. on our side, we are fundamentally a. Company. We are a startup. We build everything, we put out in the world.

[00:06:54] And so, we didn’t embark on really this, this brand campaign and, or [00:07:00] introducing ourselves to the world until we had what we knew was a solid product. And what we saw was just rapid adoption and, great feedback from our users and great organic growth.

[00:07:11] you know, word of mouth is the most powerful marketing tool out there. Right. And you sort of create word of mouth by just having a great product that people want to talk about and a great service that, that people like to use on a regular basis. And so. We went on this path after we had that.

[00:07:26] And so then things become kind of easy. Like just tell people you exist show people that you have an opinion on the world. and then they’ll naturally come to you and it just goes, and so, before we’ve embarked on our branded, To just raise awareness and raise our profile.

[00:07:40] if you use crypto.com and you told your friend to use crypto.com, maybe they ever heard of crypto.com, maybe they didn’t, their propensity to, take you up on, Hey, maybe you should. Here’s my here’s my referral code. Try it out. maybe your friend would, or wouldn’t take action, but today, I think everyone, everyone in the world around the world who,watches TV, or, has internet access has [00:08:00] probably heard of us at this point.

[00:08:01] And so, it just makes it easier for people to have a discussion. Yeah.

[00:08:05] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. I’ve used your product. I’ve used the app and it’s very intuitive and easy to use. and there’s so much just functionality in there. Like it seems like you’ve just gone through and thought of everything and.

[00:08:18] Even down to the onboarding process, I feel like KYC know your customer with other apps, is a pain in the butt and even little things it’ll say like, oh, your image, weight, size of your license, or your passport is too heavy. And you’re like, oh no, it’s gotta be a JPEG. And not a PNG. It’s like, like all these things.

[00:08:39] When I did the onboarding with yours, it was just so easy. It works the first time. There was no questions. It was very, again, intuitive. With that said, I feel like there’s other D good apps. You know, Coinbase has a good one. Gemini has a good one. You may crack it. And there’s a few others that are, that are decent.

[00:08:55] but you guys went out like huge. I mean, you guys are doing [00:09:00] multimillion dollar deals getting, you know, huge actors. What allowed you as the CMO to maybe convince management? Or did they just give you the money to spend it? It just seems like an inordinate amount of money being spent on marketing relative to the other players in the space.

[00:09:17] And maybe I’m wrong. I haven’t seen like the, the line items of each a marketing spend.

[00:09:21] Steven: Yeah. I honestly don’t know what the others are spending. my goal is to make us one of those well-known brands in the world, up there with the likes of Coke and Google and others, Netflix. and when I look at what they’re doing, we’re not doing half of what they’re doing.

[00:09:37] Right. when I, when I look at Heineken and Rolex and others that at, at formula one, and then I could go on and on, it’s a drop in the bucket. I think it’s less about, the money that’s being spent and more about the impact. I’m very focused on making sure that we do efficient, things and not just efficient things in terms of money, but also efficient things with our time.

[00:09:56] Also, these are things that compound, right? So every time [00:10:00] there’s a UFC fight and every fighter that walks in is wearing our shirt with our logo on it, that people buy those shirts and they sell out at almost every UFC fight where the people go to, you can buy them online or every formula, one race where, you know, the, the TV viewing audience is bigger than that of a Superbowl.

[00:10:18] And that happens like nine months. Right. Like the efficiency of being there, the Sixers, having our logo on the uniform,being integrated into every broadcast, of Italian football, which is globally visible and, and happened to see, several months, a year, I can go on and on, but each one of these partnerships that we’ve done, it’s extremely efficient because it reaches a lot of people.

[00:10:38] But the way in which we’re integrated says a lot about who we are as a company, You know, during the naming rights deal with the, with the staple center, which is now the crypto.com arena,it says something about our longevity and how serious we are as a company. and that, we’re here to stay.

[00:10:52] I like that.

[00:10:55] Donny Dvorin: Decision-making process or a process and Ferris would say like principles that you [00:11:00] would follow as to which sports teams that you want align with, which sports period you want align with, which stadium like, did, how did you decide all of those specific teams and leagues?

[00:11:12] Steven: So.

[00:11:13] some of the biggest things we did early on or, the formula one deal and the UFC deal.

[00:11:19] those two are interesting because, they’re the fastest growing sports in the world and formula one, I think it used to be UFC. I think this year formula one has overtaken, In part because of drive to survive on Netflix, and formula one, the fastest growing market is the U S, which is one of the single largest markets in the world.

[00:11:37] And, it was just a very appealing opportunity to, if I take a step back partnership is, is the most important thing for us. Right. So to, to your question of, how do you pick the teams or the leaks? Number one is who’s the. Right. And, can we work with them? And so, we’ve been working on this for over a year now and meeting everybody.

[00:11:57] I don’t, I don’t think there’s a sport or a [00:12:00] league or any decent team that we haven’t met with. it’s been a very, very, very busy year. we really met everybody and, pick the best partners because we do long-term partnerships. And we want to make sure that we’re working with, organizations and people.

[00:12:14] We’re going to be able to actually deliver on a partnership to grow each other’s business. So that was number one. and so when we looked at, partners, formula one and UFC, you have, a model that’s different from any other leagues, where, where the leagues, don’t many leagues around the world.

[00:12:29] Don’t have a lot of control over what’s going on. Whereas formula one has a lot of control over what’s going on, especially in the broadcast as does UFC and, and working with these parts. Was about reaching a global audience and reaching them in an impactful way. And so, there are very few leaks in the world that can offer what F1 and UFC do in terms of integration and, access to a global audience and access to a global audience on a pretty regular.

[00:12:56] Right. So, so football or soccer as you call it in the U [00:13:00] S is considered the number one sport, but it’s very diffuse there, there, there, isn’t a good way to reach the global football audience on a regular basis. a fan of Barcelona, might not be watching, a German football match over the.

[00:13:13] Right. So how do you reach all those people? Whereas every time there’s a formula, one race, there’s only one place to watch it. And there’s only one organization that’s controlling how the brands are showing up.

[00:13:26] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. So you’re looking almost like for like efficiency of reach, cause you don’t want to have too many deals going on.

[00:13:32] So your site, what are the leagues that you can partner with that. Global reach versus super-duper siloed. Is that right?

[00:13:40] Steven: We’re a single brand in the, in the way that apple is, right. apple shows up in the same way, everywhere around the world. So it was important to partner with organizations that can help us have a single message and show up in a consistent way globally to a global audience.

[00:13:54] Right. And our user base is pretty evenly distributed around the world between, U S Europe. [00:14:00] so yes, it was really important that we find the right partners that help us reach,a global audience and an integrated.

[00:14:07] one of our, Largest viewed or listened to episode was about NFTE. So on ask you a couple of questions about your NFT marketplace.

[00:14:17] Donny Dvorin: can you, tell us about your NFT marketplace and how does it differentiate from others?

[00:14:22] Steven: Yeah, I think we have a really awesome marketplace that brings together both, crypto native artists, as well as. Pretty substantial collection of mainstream artists, creators and brands, and all of them have been, together with us, trying to understand how do we generate value for the fans.

[00:14:41] Right. We don’t, we don’t just wanna drop random stuff. we don’t ever do money grabs. You’ve seen lots of platforms and lots of, either organizations or individual. do something to just do a money grab and not really care about what they’re dropping. So we work really hard with our partners to think about, what’s the long-term viability here, and [00:15:00] while they can’t predict what’s going to happen in two to three years, having a roadmap that says we’re, we’re gonna, test and learn, even with our drops and understand, listen to the audience, like what do they like lean into that?

[00:15:11] that’s a lot of how we focus with our partners and those who come onto the platform.

[00:15:15] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. I totally agree. so marketing is evolving a lot. the way that we were marketing 10 years ago, or five years ago is different than we were marketing today. Is there a specific. Strategy or tactic that you see that you’re moving to. So maybe sending a lot of emails was very popular 10 years ago, but like in 10 years you see actually billboards having resurgence or something like that. Like, what are you seeing? It could be even outside of marketing as a crypto company, just marketing in general.

[00:15:45] Steven: I used to spend a lot of time thinking about this when I was working in Twitter. I used to spend a lot of time with brands, thinking about how do they leverage Twitter and social more generally. And interestingly, I would separate your question to [00:16:00] two pieces. I don’t think strategy has changed in a hundred year.

[00:16:04] I think the tactics have, right. The strategy remains to, understand who you are as a business and effectively communicate that to the world and, and tell great stories. That’s it? Right. People connect with stories. That’s why F1 is exploding right now. It’s cause drive to survive as an incredible storytelling platform that people can watch and understand the sport and understand the characters and understand that.

[00:16:30] And, and it becomes something that they care about. And then when they watch the race, they understand it better. They understand what’s happening in the race. Right. So try to survive is probably the best marketing campaign that F1 never did.

[00:16:44] Like w why is apple, so well-known as a brand, right? who has the best cameras on their phones, and people will tell you apple, but it’s not true. Right. Like Samsung has better cameras. Right. But apple has such a beautiful way of storytelling that makes people think that, technically apple is better because [00:17:00] apple is just great.

[00:17:01] Right. And what does apple great at storytelling? So storytelling is, is it, and, and you can tell great stories because you know who you are, right. If you don’t know who you are, Then it’s hard to tell a great story because what story you’re telling and what is your role in that story? so that’s the strategy and that remains, and, and I don’t think it’ll ever change as long as human beings until human beings maybe have like microchips put in our brains.

[00:17:24] That changes how we think. Separate thing is tactics, right? And so, as you said, email was an interesting tactic when it was a new surface area that, that people were interested in spending time in today. Email is where I get spam. I focus on permission-based communication, which is, telegram, WhatsApp, slack, that’s where I spend most of my time.

[00:17:44] And once in a while I go check my email and, usually all I find there is spam. So I know email is still an effective channel for lots of people. For me, it’s not,you got to know your audiences you know, newspapers were an extremely effective, medium, and the way you told stories there, it was to fit in with the news.

[00:17:59] Right? So they were [00:18:00] typically like either long ads with lots of texts, because it was meant to look in a field ticket. What, like a circus ad looked like, it looked like an already. Because it was intended to fit into the media once in a while you want to break that mold. Right? And so people are looking at news, but then all of a sudden there’s a full-page ad with a beautiful image on it or something jarring it’s to get people to pay attention to it.

[00:18:20] So you constantly want to know what the surface areas are and how people are engaging with those new surface areas. And then you as a brand need to understand it, is that a place for me to play is an audience that I want to talk to. And if so, how do I fit into the medium or explicitly, not fit in so that I can stand out and people can notice me.

[00:18:41] but at the end of the day, all you’re doing is, is, is telling you. And giving people a reason to connect with you.

[00:18:46] Donny Dvorin: facts tell and stories sell. So you can go into a sales pitch and list all of these different facts about 52% and 25% or whatever.

[00:18:55] Or you can go in and tell a story that interweaves those facts and people [00:19:00] remember that story they’ll resonate with that story. they’ll be inspired by that story and they’re going to buy from people. Yeah, have a good story versus a bunch of good facts. And you can see it in your marketing that you’re doing stories and not just listing a bunch of facts or stats of crypto.com, which, which makes complete sense.

[00:19:16] what’s the biggest challenge that you’re facing as marketing this crypto.com brand? I

[00:19:23] Steven: wouldn’t find this as a challenge, but in terms of it being like something hard I’m coming up against, but rather, the jobs to be done right.

[00:19:31] Is that where in the classic sense, crossing a chasm. So crypto was something that was just for the early adopters and innovators, that certain group of people who, you know, they’re not necessarily brand loyal, they’re more outcome oriented. And so they just want the tools to do what they need to do.

[00:19:50] as all tech industries grow, that’s how it starts. It starts with the innovators who tinker with. And then it moves to the early adopters who, the tinkering phase is done, but the polishing phase [00:20:00] wasn’t done. And then that’s where the early adopters start working with the tools, but they don’t need them to be beautiful.

[00:20:06] and because they’re just outcome oriented and then there’s this chasm, because there’s this gap between when those people are using it and then it becomes ready for. mass adoption, or what would you like to call the early majority? And in that gap, companies need to figure out how to maintain the audience they have while attracting a new audience.

[00:20:26] and typically those two audiences are like diametrically opposed. We saw that in the, the adoption of smartphones, right. people used to ask me, why do you need a phone that also takes pictures and you can listen to music.

[00:20:37] And I would say, why are you carrying an iPod and a camera and a Blackberry and a phone. I’m like, I have all of these in one device. It’s amazing. And they’re like, it doesn’t matter. We’re like when I had a Bluetooth headphone that they was just like long and it was, it looked a bit silly and the battery life was terrible and they were like, why are you using it?

[00:20:53] And I’m like, cause I’m really curious about that. How to use this tech,that’s an early adopter behavior. I didn’t care about the bread. I didn’t even [00:21:00] care who made it. I just wanted to use it and I wanted to play with it. until the iPhone came about a lot of people weren’t ready to, use this tech.

[00:21:07] It was a familiar brand. It integrated with everything. And just worked. And so we’re at that phase, like you described our app early on, right. It just works. So you can connect your bank account easily. You can get this amazing metal visa card with great benefits. So you can move money in easily. You can take money out easily, you can trade super easy.

[00:21:26] so the product is ready for, the, that mass adoption. but now we need to communicate with people with the MES, who are used to seeing crypto is that weird thing. And so what the, the job that I had this year was to bring crypto into the mainstream and to communicate to the world is here, it’s ready for everybody.

[00:21:45] And I think we’ve effectively done that through our fortune favors, the brave campaign. we’ve done that through all of our partnerships that sort of, we, weren’t another logo on the mat and UFC, we. On the shirt that every fighter walks in, right? We’re, we’re not, a small [00:22:00] logo on the rear view mirror of an F1 car.

[00:22:02] We are all over F1 at the same level that Rolex and Pirelli and others are. and we work with Aston Martin as a team, like we brought crypto forward and we’ve communicated to everybody crypto’s here and it’s ready for you. And so now how do we continue to community? With the people who were early in crypto and their way up the curve of knowledge about the space and what they want to hear.

[00:22:26] And what we need to communicate with them is a bit different than people who are still checking out this space. Now they’re aware that crypto is a thing, but they’re not sure how to come in. How do you start? And so it’s very different communication to both of those. because their needs are different.

[00:22:40] Their, their need states are different than their knowledge is different. and so having, one marketing organization that can effectively do that, and developing a brand that is, well loved by both of those audiences who have very different needs and perceive themselves as being different people.

[00:22:54] Right. I mean, in the crypto world, what w what do we call people who are not in crypto? We call them normies, right? What do we call [00:23:00] people who are in crypto? Degens like, like we, we got to bridge that gap. and so. that I would say is the biggest challenge how do you effectively do that?

[00:23:08] Donny Dvorin: I think in my opinion, with bridging the gap is a NFTE. So like right now, in the sense that like, I’ll just be driving in the car, taking my kids somewhere, the radio’s on in the radio DJ is talking about this NFT from this music artist or regular artists and like, Yeah, that may maybe, maybe that same DJ is talking about doze or Sheila, you knew, but probably not.

[00:23:34] Or Bitcoin. Probably not, but NFTs just seem to be coming up everywhere it’s like the gateway drug into crypto because people are like, oh, what are these NFT things? Oh, that’s that blockchain thing that I’ve been learning about. And then they learn about blockchain.

[00:23:48] Then they learn about Bitcoin. Then they learn about all the other coins. Then they want to invest that they go down the rabbit hole. we’ll see what happens, but I do feel that NFTs right now is like the part that’s helping [00:24:00] cross.

[00:24:00] Steven: I thought that early on, I thought that that was going to happen and it it’s, it’s not a little bit it’s raising awareness, but the mass hasn’t dove in, into NFTs, as eagerly, I think there’s still a little bit of work to be done. and, and I think companies like Twitter, I think we’re going to see that in 2022, I think what you’re saying.

[00:24:21] I think they’ve driven awareness. And I think certainly, certainly from our platform, like it’s created something that people can talk about. Right? Like Snoop dog released his first NFTs on our platform released a really cool song. and it was extremely early. I think it was like the second week of March.

[00:24:37] Right? Like in terms of like 20, 21 was a year of NFTs, I think he played a big role in. and it was funny and we were doing a button bunch of clubhouses together and, just, it was amazing to hear the questions from people then and how far we’ve come. And only a few months, like it’s, it’s incredible.

[00:24:53] I think what we’re going to start to see next year. Hopefully if Twitter can actually roll out their NFT authentication, right. So that, [00:25:00] that question of, well, can I just download it? Why do I have to buy this? the ability to, show the. That you own something unique, which is also digital.

[00:25:09] That’s never been possible. Right? I’ve tried to explain to people NFTs by saying, if you were really a super fan, you would buy a box set of led Zepplin, let’s say, and you put on your shelf. You’re not listening to all of the music that’s in that box. Set. All that. But the fact that it’s on your shelf, like the box itself was a beautiful piece of art and the creative that was there.

[00:25:30] And it said a lot about you and you had it on your shelf at home or in your office or whatever. And today, people live a lot of their lives, Right. Even your bedroom, right? If you remember bedrooms in the eighties and nineties, even early two thousands, like you’re covered in posters.

[00:25:44] Right. And it was things you cut out from magazines or posters that you bought when you went to a show or, or just you bought online, whatever, or you bought at a record store. but like that was your identity. You had limited space on the wall or your ceiling and you covered it with what was important to [00:26:00] you that represented your identity, that when your friends came over to hang out, like that’s how you projected.

[00:26:05] Who you cared about and who you wanted to be in, what you work. how do kids do that today? How do people do that today? Right? If no, one’s coming to your office. If people, if a lot of people you interact with, forget about COVID right. Even pre COVID. Right? A lot of people I interact with on a day-to-day basis are online.

[00:26:21] Right? They’re on Twitter, right? They’re on Instagram. I have friends all over the world, they never come to my house. They never come to me. And with kids today who have friendships online, and when I say kids I’m talking about anybody, who’s not like a working professional today. they don’t have that bedroom experience that they used to have.

[00:26:38] And even if they do in the real world, they have this parallel life online. How do you create a unique experience that projects who you uniquely are online?

[00:26:48] Netflix, right. There’s nothing special about being, into a certain movie.

[00:26:51] You’re not putting posters up all of a sudden NFTs and digital collectibles give you that opportunity to say I bought one [00:27:00] of a set. And there’s a limited number of them and being able to authenticate it and have the platforms that you’re working with, validate that you’re the actual owner of one of these things is a very strong way of communicating to the world who you are, and what’s important, right?

[00:27:15] What’s important to you. And we’re going to see that show up in a big way. I fully expect, Fortnite and other games to integrate NFL. For walk-on music, right? Where it’s like, are you going to be the guy who picks from like, whatever they give you and you’re going to pick a song or are you going to be the person that comes with like your NFT for your walk-on song when you show up into, into a game, right?

[00:27:37] you’re going to be embarrassed to show up and not have your song that you play. that’s going to be a thing. and I think 20, 22 will start to become the. Of the application of NFTs has all these other platforms start to integrate.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] Donny Dvorin: Cool. Well, on that note, you are very well connected. Do you have any other brave marketers that we should have on this? And you can

[00:27:56] Steven: recommend,

[00:27:57] Donny Dvorin: uh, John Schoolcraft. what they’ve done at [00:28:00] Oatley is just brilliant because their initial launch by like going to barista. and making it like the thing for baristas to dispense and people assess.

[00:28:08] Steven: I mean, even my wife, I remember a month ago she was like, oh, can you pick up that, the milk? And I’m like, you’re not drinking milk anymore. Right. And she’s like, no, the one that the baristas use and I’m like, I literally stopped. And I’m like, are you kidding me? I was like, you still think about that?

[00:28:22] And she’s not into marketing at all. She was like, no, she’s like the one that, that, that like Bruce’s and underused. And I’m like, yeah, And just like the power of which they had breakthrough ideas early, but even down to, th th their behavior at the super bowl this year,like they continue to just, that’s a product that should not be as high interest as it is.

[00:28:40] And, and the way in which they, they do storytelling, and create brand love around the product is just incredible.

[00:28:46] they’re constantly thinking about, the relationship between the audience and the brand. I really respect.

[00:28:51] Donny Dvorin: Well, Steven, thank you so much for being on the show. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you.

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