[00:00:00] Donny Dvorin: Modern marketing changes fast and great marketers needed edge marketers from challenger brands need to be especially brave. This season. All our guests are from challenger brands. Join us as they unveil the strategies and tactics behind the risks that they’ve taken. They’ll talk about the biggest coldest marketing campaigns that got their brand noticed and made an impact in the industry hosting.

[00:00:30] Brave software and me Donny Dearborn, head of sales at breathe. Join me to get fresh new perspectives and the inspiration to say yes to brave marketing moments.

[00:00:43] You’re listening to a new episode of the brave marketer podcast. And we’re excited about this one because we are interviewing someone from the aerospace category. Uh, and this will person is Jessica. Brenda Enza and she’s the CMO at Lilium [00:01:00] and Lilium is a new type of plane that’s based in Munich and it’s a hundred percent of luck.

[00:01:07] It’s a seven seater jet with zero operating emissions. And if you haven’t seen them take a look online, do a Google, do a brave search. And he said like how I corrected that not a Google search or a brave search. You can brave it and take a look at them. And you’ll be super impressed with their videos and their planes.

[00:01:25] It’s what they’re doing. And Jessica specifically is a marketing leader with over two decades of B2B and B2C experience. She’s helped redefine the way for both startup and fortune 500 companies like Amex, Uber, Google, SoftBank, and develop brand marketing strategies and global campaigns. She’s consistently worked to connect with other companies, diverse customers and employees.

[00:01:49] Through stories, campaigns live and digital experiences and cultural moments. So really, really great resume and past experiences that we get into in this episode. [00:02:00] And you’ll love this episode because what we discussed is what it’s like to market. When you’re pre-revenue company, that’s challenging they’re industry literally is not launching any products till 20, 24.

[00:02:11] So a good, you know, three years away, but they have to start thinking about their marketing now. Um, And everything that they’re doing. And Jessica also provides what it was like working with the rolling stones magazines for the launch of Google play music when she was at Google. And in addition, Jared, Jessica shares a number of her favorite women, led purpose driven companies that are challenging in their industry.

[00:02:33] But before we hop on to today’s episodes, we want to highlight our brave pick of the week. Every episode we choose a brand that has run an ad campaign with brief and our pick of the week is nervosa network and they’ve leveraged brave sponsored images to drive massive awareness across APAC, Europe, and Australia for their theorem compatible layer, two solution and their program generated over 13.5 million impressions.

[00:02:56] And drove really strong engagement with a 3.2% click through [00:03:00] rate and with no further ado. Now for today’s episode of the brave marketer,

[00:03:13] Jessica. Welcome to the brave marketer podcast. How are you doing today?

[00:03:17] Jessica Bryndza: Thank you, Don Anderson. Great. Doing great. It’s a sunny day in San Francisco.

[00:03:21] Donny Dvorin: Doing well. Great. Thank you for so much for, um, coming on. Who, why don’t we kick it off just by asking you what’s the most exciting thing that you’re working on right now?

[00:03:30] Um,

[00:03:30] Jessica Bryndza: I’d say right now, um, we’ve resumed flight testing at Lilium. So our five seats, uh, technology demonstrator, uh, started flying again in July. And so the most exciting thing that, that me and my team are working on. Really sharing that flight test content and figuring out how to best, um, showcase the amazing work that our engineers are doing and building, you know, the, the technology behind this aircraft.

[00:03:53] Um, the tall electric, vertical takeoff and landing, uh, industry or sector is [00:04:00] one that’s growing. And, um, we’re playing our part showing that it’s real and it’s actually inevitable.

[00:04:05] Donny Dvorin: This series of the brand marketer podcast is all about challenger brands and Lilium is definitely challenging. The aeronautics industry.

[00:04:15] Can you just give our listeners kind of from the top, we know what is Lilium and how are you doing things differently? How are you challenging the other brands? I mean, this, this type of category of airplanes doesn’t even exist today, correct?

[00:04:29] Jessica Bryndza: Correct. It exists in the sense that, um, there are some vertical takeoff and landing.

[00:04:34] Um, aircraft, but there’s none that are electric. So that’s the, that’s the E and E V tall. Um, and it’s, so I’d say. From first, I think it’s awesome, right? That you’re, that you’re focusing on on challenger brands. I think for us, what, what we’re really doing is, uh, we’re challenging the conventional, um, players in the industry.

[00:04:53] And so our technology is a, is a very unique one in that we’re using what we call D E V T [00:05:00] ducted electric vectors. What that simply means is we’re using jet architecture. So a jet technology for electric, vertical takeoff and landing aircraft. So, and what that means, it’s lower noise. Um, it’s lower vibration and it enables us to have sort of what I call like a recognizable business jet format, which feels really comfortable.

[00:05:20] So when you, um, when you come into the, the Lillian. Um, it feels spacious. There’s lovely panoramic windows, uh, and it feels like a very comfortable experience, which ultimately is what people will people want. I think the other thing to mention in the challenger is that, you know, we have a very ambitious, you know, audacious mission, which is, um, decarbonizing aviation.

[00:05:42] And we join a lot of our competitors right. In. In that mission, um, as well as the whole EVs Eve Eve sector electric vehicle sector in, um, in making sure that we are building the infrastructure and this ecosystem to help create a sustainable transportation options for, for, [00:06:00] for both people and the planet.

[00:06:01] So I’d say we’re challenging in the sense that we have a very unique proposition. But I think we’re also challenging the traditional methods of transportation.

[00:06:10] Donny Dvorin: Right. And can you talk about the potential different business models that the planes will have?

[00:06:17] Jessica Bryndza: Sure. I mean, you know, right now we’re focused on building and certifying our aircraft as well as the other players in this space.

[00:06:24] Um, as we evolve and we look into entry into service in 2024, um, you know, we’re looking at, uh, various different models. One is our own network, um, flying Lillian. Another is, um, you know, selling our aircraft to, to, um, airlines. We announced a deal with Azule airlines, a huge Brazilian carrier back, uh, about a month ago, um, as well as using cargo and, and using the interior of the jet, strip the seats out, um, and, uh, really try to take advantage of.

[00:06:54] The sort of 24 7 delivery expectations that people have. So we have a really [00:07:00] diverse business model and it’s going to evolve over time.

[00:07:02] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. And if you can’t even fly till 20, 24, what does marketing look like right now for

[00:07:06] Jessica Bryndza: you? That’s a great question. Um, you know, we’re pre-revenue so for, for marketing, for us and for lots of pre-revenue companies, um, it’s, it’s really.

[00:07:15] Shoring up our investors and really focusing our investors in our, in our supplier and partner network. So, um, we, uh, went public in September and mid September, which was a huge milestone for the company. Um, so we’re attracting, you know, for years we’ve been attracting institutional investors and family investors and things like that.

[00:07:35] But now we have, you know, regular people who are. Who are saying, you know, we believe in Lillian when we believe in this mission. Um, and so, uh, you know, marketing to them and continuing to reinforce the credibility of what we’re doing through communicating about our technology. I mentioned, you know, flight testing, um, and the way that we’re evolving our technology.

[00:07:54] And learning, right. Um, are the credibility of our team. We have an amazing team, [00:08:00] um, built from, you know, people from Airbus, the gentlemen who built and manufactured the jets, like the Airbus, a 3 58, 3 80. And then, you know, lastly, um, you mentioned the business model that we really are educating about the different areas.

[00:08:15] For us to attain revenue starting in 2024. So, um, there’s still the audience segmentation and there’s still the understanding of what matters, but it’s very different than maybe in companies I’d worked for. So Jessica,

[00:08:27] Donny Dvorin: our podcast is all about the brief marketing moment when marketers had to take a risk and that risk paid off.

[00:08:34] Uh, what’s your brave marketing moment for the podcast? You

[00:08:37] Jessica Bryndza: know, I was thinking about this because there there’s a few examples I’ll use, but one, I think the most risky one, or I think when I think about being brave, there’s always that feeling on the inside. Is this okay? Like, is this going to work right?

[00:08:51] And I didn’t, I did an event with a temporary, I S I was, I spent time working for Eventbrite and we would do a huge partner summit called fly con, where we would have, [00:09:00] um, it, you know, Eventbrite is a ticketing platform. So we’d invite music, venue owners, and promoters and different creators. And we do this big conference every year.

[00:09:10] And this one year we did it in Denver. And, um, every year we have an entertainment kind of welcome ceremony, kind of welcome, uh, And a woman that worked for me at the time. Who’s now one of my good friends. Um, she had this really beautiful idea. She was a burlesque performer and show producer. And, um, Denver in this one venue in Denver had a history of, um, uh, burlesque performers.

[00:09:34] And we said, well, why don’t we put on like the best of the best in burlesque performance and really. Spectrum of not just traditional performers, but you know, those who are sort of non-binary and who kind of explore the boundaries of, of this art form and event rate was really about supporting the arts.

[00:09:50] So we put on a burlesque show for about 400 of our partners, um, and knowing that it was a bit risky, but we. Really [00:10:00] felt that the expression of this particular art form was one that we needed to appreciate and welcome. And while there might have been a few people who, um, it may have not been their cup of tea, so to speak, um, we have such great feedback that people love that we were, uh, pushing, um, sort of not just like everyone drinks, some cheap white wine and, you know, listen to, I love DJs, but just like, just listen to a DJ, but really.

[00:10:26] Um, bring our brand to life and bring our mission to life, which is supporting the arts and supporting live experiences. So that was one of the scariest things I’ve ever done, but it paid

[00:10:36] Donny Dvorin: off. Nice. Nice. I love that. And you said you had a second big marketing moment as well?

[00:10:41] Jessica Bryndza: Yeah, I think the other one, I, I, I, well, uh, sort of suggest is, um, Years ago, I worked for Google and we were, uh, launching, uh, Google play music.

[00:10:51] So, uh, part of our, our music platform and we had, we partnered with rolling stone to book a show and, um, [00:11:00] at the time, uh, you know, their weekend and, and, and we ended up booking the weekend and childish Gambino. And at the time, people weren’t as familiar with them definitely as they are now. And. I think the, the, the brave moment was really quite frankly, pushing back to rolling stone a bit that is, and they are, you know, they’re, you know, uh, music, you know, royalty in a sense, but I felt really strongly that the artists that were being recommended did not fit with our brand and it didn’t did not fit with what my perception of where music was going.

[00:11:33] And, um, again, I’m really proud of the work that my team did. And, and most importantly, aligning with those two artists who, you know, clearly. Legendary in the music industry. It was a moment. I always think of these moments as when you have to go inwards and really think about, you know, who the customer is.

[00:11:52] Is this for me, or is this who for our, for our customers and who we would want to put in front of them. And in this case, these two are. [00:12:00] It was literally the most incredible show and it was incredible. It was, they just killed it, obviously. So yeah, those are the two I’d recommend or I

[00:12:07] Donny Dvorin: w what kind of genre of music was the rolling stones I’m trying to recommend?

[00:12:12] Jessica Bryndza: Um, let’s just say it was traditional. Rock.

[00:12:16] Donny Dvorin: Yeah.

[00:12:17] Jessica Bryndza: Hospitals are older, traditional rock. Yeah. And it wasn’t like kind of what we were trying to embody as a company. Um, and luckily my, and I think, you know, on the brave marketing moments, it’s, it’s a great question also because what it takes is it takes leadership.

[00:12:32] Not only that your individual, uh, sort of risk-taking comfort if you will, but, um, I was really lucky and fortunate to have, uh, a manager at the time that was like, you know what you go, I trust you. And that gave me a lesson as in how to be a good leader. And clearly I presented data and we talked about, you know, where they were and their trajectory as artists.

[00:12:54] Most importantly, he supported me, you know, and he said, you got it, just go do it. And, um, yeah, ended [00:13:00] up being, uh, a big success for us.

[00:13:02] Donny Dvorin: So back to Lilium, what other challenger brands come to mind when you’re thinking about, you know, different underdogs competing well against you? Are there other competitors in your space right now?

[00:13:14] Jessica Bryndza: Oh, sure. I mean this, this, this industry or this sector, it’s a huge market, you know, I think depending on, on the, the research you read, um, it’s about a trillion dollar market, right? So there’s absolutely room for multiple players and, um, um, big, a big fan of, um, a few of our competitors and what they’re doing.

[00:13:32] So, so yes. Um, so yes, to there being multiple players in our market, Um, as it relates to other, I’d say other challenger Bryant brands or other companies that I think are pushing the proverbial envelope. I think closer to our industry in the ed sector, I’m a huge fan of Vivian. You know, they’re an electric, electric, trucking company, electric truck company, or they’re, I should say their Evie company with their first product being an electric truck.

[00:13:56] And. They just went public recently [00:14:00] and, uh, they just do a great job in communicating, you know, storytelling. Right. And what you would think is like truck owners being a more of a traditional segment, they really figured out the one, the technology of how to electrify a vehicle like this, but to a way to do it, that is very much.

[00:14:17] Um, tied to their mission. They have a new campaign called forever where they donated, um, or they, they put aside 8.2 million of shares of their equity to go to fund forever, um, with this mission, right? To support this mission of high impact climate initiatives. So I love the, uh, clearly what they’re doing for mobility, but, um, even more.

[00:14:38] So what they’re doing for, for, you know, to be a purpose driven company, You know, if I’m asked this question, I’m always going to lift up companies run by women. Um, a few I’ll mention is, uh, you know, Madison Reed, they’re a DTC home hair color company. Um, I’ve been, uh, watching Amy era. Who’s a CEO, um, really grow this [00:15:00] company, built an incredible company, um, and meeting a true unmet need.

[00:15:04] Right. You think, oh, I can buy, you know, hair, color kids anywhere, but she has found a way to do like very low chemical custom color kits at home and is, and also is an example of, of a digital native brand. Right. That’s also now building an online, offline strategy, which is kind of cool. Um, give it to the other one.

[00:15:22] I’ll mention is the McBride sisters collection. There’s the incredible winemakers out of the bay area. Um, Andrea and Robin, they actually were sisters who were one, I think grew up in San Francisco and one grew up in New Zealand and they were reunited and they founded this wine company and they’re the largest black owned wine company in the us.

[00:15:41] Um, and talk about a challenger. I mean, they’re challenging industry historically, you know, driven by. You know, by a certain Isaiah historically defined by tradition and gender. Right. And so they’re really taking this on and there, I don’t know if you’ve heard of their, one of their wine, um, wine brands is black girl magic.[00:16:00]

[00:16:00] And so I’m just huge fans of them. Um, and the last thing is I was kind of prepping for this conversation, you know, I think the other interesting space is the whole cannabis industry. I mean, it’s, it’s taking on the alcohol industry and it’s really flipping out. Um, relationship right with social gatherings.

[00:16:19] I was at a bridal shower on Saturday and they obviously had wine and other things, but they had can a company called C a N N that, um, founded by, uh, uh, two guys based in, um, in LA LGBTQ, um, part of the LGBTQ community. And they, um, you know, the, the, the bridal shower had like a host of these, these cannabis drinks.

[00:16:41] And so. If you look at some of the data, anytime, uh, an area legalizes marijuana, alcohol consumption, and particularly binge drinking drops dramatically. So I think it’s super interesting to see how this is going to play out, you know, nationwide and how we’re going to evolve. So that’s the. That’s my [00:17:00] take there.

[00:17:00] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. I was just recently in New York city for the first time before COVID and there were two things that I noticed that were dramatically different. One was, there was so many more scooters, electric scooters on the road and tons of different brands. It wasn’t just like when you go to San Francisco or a specific city where you rent them like lime or whatever, and then they go around, they were all different brands, privately owned.

[00:17:23] And then the second thing was the amount of, you know, cannabis or pot smoking. It was. Like everybody. And their mother was like, had a joint in their hands or were just smoking weed while they were walking and actually went up to one of the police officers. And I said, yeah, I haven’t been in the city for awhile.

[00:17:40] Like, what’s the deal with marijuana lately? Is it just like cigarettes? And he says, exactly, you can just smoke it anywhere. So it, I could totally see it at parties at weddings, even. I don’t know about bar mitzvahs, maybe it’s a little bit young. Adult functions where, you know, you’re passing out joints, you’re [00:18:00] passing out, you know, whatever it is, but you know, it starts with, with cannabis drink, but I could see the smoking as well, especially outside.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:07] Jessica Bryndza: But the, all of these companies and, you know, we could probably spend four hours just talking about, you know, another 10, right. Instead of 10. We all have this, like it’s like they flip, they flip the thing on its head. Right. And they flip the thing. I was like, what if we right. Or there’s like, there’s a way that it feels very, it’s like you have to be free and you have to almost take your blinders off and be free.

[00:18:29] And there’s another company again in the cannabis space called ke Koko. K I T O sorry. Okay. Okay. Oh, it’s a woman owned, um, cannabis tea company. And, um, again, like I’m drinking a cup of tea as I’m talking to you, not cannabis tea, but it’s just even thinking about, I could, if I watched her it’s it’s illegal.

[00:18:50] Um, but it’s the same thing that it’s even taking like a traditional industry, like tea. Right. And thinking about how you would enhance in no pun [00:19:00] intended enhance that experience. So, so yeah, I think there’s. I think the whole, especially the whole direct to consumer DTC space and there’s such interesting things happening.

[00:19:09] Um, and I’m purchasing a lot of those products. So, you know, I guess it’s working.

[00:19:13] Donny Dvorin: Okay. It’s true. Like it started off with, I think, you know, I’m sure there was others before dollar shave club, but I feel like that brought DTC to the map. And then there’s just been hundreds, if not thousands of different DTC companies in every single category.

[00:19:28] And I think, you know, COVID has made them even more popular because people didn’t want to go to the supermarket or the grocery store, you know, the, the drug store in the beginning days. And they wanted things delivered to their home and Amazon. Yes. I mean, you could buy so much on Amazon, but there’s a lot of things you can’t buy.

[00:19:44] Like you can’t buy ready-made food, you know, in meal packets delivered to your home and. It’s like the hair coloring that you’re talking about. They’re just not available on Amazon. So you do need some, I

[00:19:56] Jessica Bryndza: agree. And the other thing about, um, I think direct to consumer [00:20:00] companies very often, they are so good in analyzing and understanding their customer and, and those true needs.

[00:20:05] So I’ll give you an example, a girlfriend of mine and Marianne Goldman. Um, we worked at American express together years ago and she founded, um, two companies. One was a bridesmaid’s dress company called two birds bridesmaids. And she basically was like, bridesmaids. Dresses are all. And I’m going to design one.

[00:20:21] That’s really cool. And you’re going to want to wear it afterwards. And like I had, I ha I have one and I have worn it, right. Just like out, she then found sh and she was a, um, she was getting married and that was the need that she saw. Then she got pregnant. And when she was pregnant with her first child, she founded it’s called hatch collection, like hatch, like an egg hatching.

[00:20:40] And, um, she. Thought, well, the maternity industry is again, super traditional. The clothing is maybe not as stylish as. I don’t know, population of millions of women that are, you know, that are getting pregnant. And she, she had this, this, this, this kind of like [00:21:00] target customer in mind, which is her and her friends.

[00:21:02] Right. And so she developed this awesome line of maternity wear partnered with Christy Turlington and every mother counts and did a lot of work in the philanthropy space. And. Kind of markets are closed as like yeah. Wear them when you’re pregnant, but also wear them when you’re not pregnant because styles have changed.

[00:21:17] Right. And it’s all about, she didn’t go out to like bump though. Yeah, no, it doesn’t have the vomit. It was just like Chloe and like, cool. Totally. Exactly. And, but at the core, she didn’t go out to sell clothes. Right. The core, she went out to say, like, I see you as a customer, right. I am you. And I’m going to do, I’m going to develop and build a company.

[00:21:37] And now she’s building a retail. Basically empire. She, I don’t know if she has a three or four or five stores now, but that’s what I think is pretty cool. Right? These DTC companies are finding their customers online and then once you hook them and you build that brand, then they build the, you know, the, the, the way to actually create that community.

[00:21:54] That feels really fun. If you can remember, um, in the real world, you know, where you can, you know, be [00:22:00] amongst people who are, who are like yourself. So I think it’s a cool space to watch this digitally native brand going, um, going to impersonal.

[00:22:07] Donny Dvorin: Yeah, it’s interesting when you talk about communities because I’m in following the NFT space, right.

[00:22:12] Really, very closely the non fungible tokens. And that’s all about building the community first and then launching your NFTs where a lot of these DTC brands that sounds like. They’re just launching and then they’re building the community and then you can service more, you know, extensions or different brands out of that central hub.

[00:22:31] So, um, I mean I’m sure community was, was, was at the start, but you know, there’s probably discussion to be had about what comes first community or the brand.

[00:22:39] Jessica Bryndza: Yeah. Chicken or chicken or egg chicken, or the

[00:22:42] Donny Dvorin: egg, um, kind of big picture thinking. Um, you’ve been in marketing for a long time. What are you seeing working right now in marketing?

[00:22:50] What’s. You

[00:22:51] Jessica Bryndza: know, it’s, it’s funny. I think because my career has been strangely progressive, we get going to smaller companies, right? So [00:23:00] like going for American express to goo smaller in size, sorry, not in market cap or anything, but American express Google to Uber to event bright, like something about it is getting smaller.

[00:23:11] The reason why I’m the reason why I’m prefacing that, because I think that, um, marketers are. Really learning to not be re reliance or over-reliant on like huge budgets or equating budget to impact. Right. I think that, um, I think that we get a bad rap sometimes, right? That we want to come into companies and ask for X, hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, especially with larger companies to do a big campaign, we do a big campaign or two, and then we.

[00:23:40] Right. And, and I think that that is really changing in the more I talk to people. I think it’s, um, it’s really about, you know, doing more with less, um, and really understanding the influence on the bottom line. The other thing I think is really evolving, um, which I’m super happy about, which is [00:24:00] this true connection, like great brands and great companies are always built inside out.

[00:24:04] Always, always, always, and really understanding the. Those sort of levers of success, if you will, on the culture side and the employer side and having this real connectedness between your employer brand and your culture and your externally facing brand. I can give you three examples when that breaks down your credibility tanks and your brand value drops.

[00:24:27] Right? So, so this CPO and CMOs, you know, chief people, officers, and chief marketing officers, or those functions being really connected, I think is quite frankly essential, especially as it relates to, um, diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility, D I D I a, right? Like if you, if we are not building equitable, Open inclusive campaigns and programs.

[00:24:54] Um, if you aren’t, if I’m not, I think we’re going to fail. Right. Because I think the expectation [00:25:00] is that, um, we are really cognizant of, um, maybe the way marketing has been centered for decades and sort of where it needs to evolve to. So again, like in summary, I think like equating budget, budgeting to impact, maybe it’s something that’s.

[00:25:16] Going away. And I think maybe increasing his importance on culture and you know, and building an inclusive campaigns.

[00:25:22] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. You know, I think about chief people, officers very internal like HR. And then I think of marketing is very external, but you bring up a good point that there’s a lot of crossover between the two and whatever you do, marketing externally needs to be marketed internally, which helps with morale, which then goes to the chief people officer.

[00:25:43] Jessica Bryndza: Totally. I spent two years at Uber and I had never worked on a people team. Um, and I got hired by their chief people officer, who I had worked with at a few other companies. And, uh, and that’s because the actual, the sort of, one of the burning platforms was culture. And it was, how do you think about, how do you wrap [00:26:00] your head?

[00:26:00] How do you use a different mindset to think about building. Um, to building culture with an eye on what it means externally, it’s super important internally, but like your employees are walking around every day, right? They’re constant ambassadors for what they do. And they have a conversation at a dinner, dinner party, and someone says, what’s it like to work for ABC company?

[00:26:18] You asked them to be like, it’s challenging sometimes, but it’s awesome. And I love working there and you should come to work there too. Right? That’s the goal. And if that’s not happening, You could spend millions of dollars on a campaign you’re dead in the water. If your employees don’t feel it. And that dissonance between what you say externally, and then what they feel internally when that’s off.

[00:26:39] Ooh. That’s like, that’s when that’s, when it gets really, that’s when you can really lose a lot of credibility and in your, again, your brand value. Yeah,

[00:26:48] Donny Dvorin: my wife works for a company and the Glassdoor reviews were terrible, but she had an amazing experience there. And she would say to everybody, like, don’t look at glass door.

[00:26:57] It’s not like that. That was like one disgruntled employee [00:27:00] that went off on glass door and that got, you know, more comments or whatever. And so it went to the top, but that’s not the way it actually is over there. So

[00:27:09] Jessica Bryndza: it’s a big company. Sometimes there’s, you know, culture can be developed in pockets. So maybe one team with a lot of people.

[00:27:17] Feeling so great about being at that company. And that’s going to show up, whereas, you know, 75% of the rest of the company, maybe isn’t as active. Right. So I, I hear you. It’s it’s uh, but, but these are important things, right? Those are, those are important indicators to look at, um, for all companies.

[00:27:32] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. So brave in the user privacy space is I’m thinking about user privacy at all.

[00:27:38] Like we’re just privacy.

[00:27:40] Jessica Bryndza: Tell me more about, um, how you’re defining that and what that means for you, because we do, I mean, we are a German company, so GDPR, I mean, we are

[00:27:48] Donny Dvorin: part of the GDPR.

[00:27:49] Jessica Bryndza: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, we don’t have any paying customers yet, but when we do, of course, we’re going to, um, you know, we’re going to follow every single rule to, to, [00:28:00] to the letter that we, that we need to probably above and beyond.

[00:28:02] One of our values is around safety and integrity, right? I mean, that’s the physical safety. Of, um, obviously of, of, of us at work and also the psychological safety, but it’s also information security, right. And safety of eventually of our, of our customers. So it’s something that, that, um, you know, we’re not, we don’t need to address right now from a consumer perspective, but definitely in our business practices, um, where.

[00:28:26] Donny Dvorin: Yeah, exactly. And I think about safety has planes. I mean, there’s probably not one other more thing. You know, you can have the most luxurious, comfortable planes with the best panoramic windows, but if safety is not there, then you’re dead in the water. So I get that a

[00:28:41] Jessica Bryndza: hundred percent. That’s why we do things like we have a whole systems testing group, which looks at things like wind tunnel testing and battery testing.

[00:28:49] And, you know, there’s something called jelly bird testing, where we throw a little, little jelly mold to test the families, to sort of simulate a bird strike. This is the whole industry, right. Is, [00:29:00] um, is, is, uh, is constantly doing work in this space to make sure that when it’s time for you to step foot into a Lilium jet, you are 100%.

[00:29:08] Yeah.

[00:29:09] Donny Dvorin: And, and I don’t know how much you can share, but you’re probably getting ready for the 20, 24 launch. Um, have you started thinking about the marketing campaigns that got.

[00:29:19] Jessica Bryndza: Not really. And to be honest, I’d say, um, right now what we’re really looking at is a couple of different things. One is, you know, what, our entry into service markets, right?

[00:29:27] So where are we going to show up first? Um, and then, uh, and then, you know, who are our first customers going to be and what do they look like? And so it’s, it’s more about, I’d say research in these next as the 18 months or so than it is what the output right of the campaign would be. It’s it starts with understanding who, who we’re inviting right into industry.

[00:29:47] Donny Dvorin: That’s great. Um, so where can people reach you? I won’t give

[00:29:51] Jessica Bryndza: my cell phone number out just because I’m not to go in texts, but, um, I’d say, uh, you know, the, the best place to reach me is I really like LinkedIn. [00:30:00] I do a lot of work on there, so just send me a message. If you want to kind of reach out, you’ll see some of the work I’ve done.

[00:30:05] And I do a lot tons of tons of work in the nonprofit space. So, um, I like sharing what I think are interesting things happening. So, uh, yeah, you can probably just find me there. It’s the best place. Um, okay. Maybe at a park, somewhere hiking and San Francisco. Nice.

[00:30:19] Donny Dvorin: Great. Well thank you for coming on the show.

[00:30:21] We really appreciate it.

[00:30:22] Jessica Bryndza: Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

[00:30:24] Donny Dvorin: are you liking our podcast?

[00:30:27] Do you like what you hear? And I asked that because you know, be really helpful if you just took two seconds, maybe 30 seconds and wrote us a review on apple podcasts. This helps us get into more ears So just give us a shout out, put him a couple of words.

[00:30:45] And it says, and the reviews would be really helpful. Thank you. And on a final note, if you’re a marketer and you’ve got a brand product or service that you’d like to get in Braves 40 million users, and can you believe we’re up to 40 million users? just shoot us an email at ad sales at braille. [00:31:00] Calm 80 S a L E s@brave.com.

[00:31:03] Let us know you’re a podcast listener. and if your budget is under 10 K a month, we’ll bump you up to the top of our self-serve waiting list. If your budget is under $10,000 a month, you’ll qualify for a 25% podcast listener discount. Again, that’s ad sales@brave.com and finally musical credits. Go to my older brother, Ari divorce and special, special thanks to our production, geniuses, Sam, and sheds.

[00:31:26] And until next side.