[00:00:00] Donny Dvorin: Modern marketing changes fast and great marketers needed edge marketers from challenger brands need to be especially brave. This season. All our guests are from challenger brands. Join us as they unveil the strategies and tactics behind the risks that they’ve taken. They’ll talk about the biggest boldest marketing campaigns that got their brand noticed and made an impact in the industry.

[00:00:29] Hosted. Brave software and me Donny Dearborn, head of sales at breathe. Join me to get fresh new perspectives and the inspiration to say yes to brief marketing moments.

[00:00:44] You’re listening to a new episode of the brave marketer podcast. And this one features Shani Benzer. Who’s the head of marketing growth at Crunchbase, where she leads the teams that shaped the Crunchbase brands, acquire new customers and retain users with 14 [00:01:00] years of B2C and B2B experience at startups and public companies.

[00:01:03] She understands how. Best elements of consumer marketing to the enterprise. So prior to joining crunch, brace shinny honed her full stack marketing communication skills at Dropbox pre and post the IPO, salesforce.com Invidia and at agency supporting clients like PlayStation and Intel. So really a great amount of.

[00:01:26] Experience that she’s going to draw on today. And some of the key takeaways that you’ll see is that we do talk a lot about career growth and jobs, and trying to find jobs that you have a passion for may not necessarily be the right step in your career. And then on the Crunchbase side, we talked about all the different types of.

[00:01:47] Product lines that they have and how it’s similar to a company like LinkedIn, where they have different audiences that they’re selling to, but there may be a crossover of that audience too. And so how do you market to one audience and then cross them over [00:02:00] to another product line? And so that was interesting and being really concise with your marketing and telling your marketing story, your 12 words or less than delighting your audience.

[00:02:10] So all stuff that we talked about. So I really think you’re going to enjoy this. before we hop in today’s episode, we want to highlight our brave pick of the week. So every episode we choose a brand that has run an ad campaign with brave. And this week we’re choosing crypto.com. So they’re a crypto exchange and one of the largest out there, and they’re growing so fast and they’re doing deals with different race car companies, and they’re putting their brand everywhere.

[00:02:33] And they spent a good amount with brave and they ran sponsored images to increase brand awareness about their crypto.com visa card and lowest trading fees. And they chose brave because our audience is composed of mostly crypto enthusiasts, over 70% and early tech adopters. And they’ve been one of the longest standing customers for the brave ads platform.

[00:02:55] And we’re really happy to work with. here’s today’s episode of the brave [00:03:00] marketer.

[00:03:08] Hi, Shani. Welcome to the brave marketer podcast. How you doing today?

[00:03:12] Shanee Ben-Zur: I’m doing great. Thanks for having.

[00:03:14] Donny Dvorin: Great. it’s nice to talk to a fellow Israeli. We were just talking before the episode and we have very similar backgrounds. Both of our parents are from the same town in Israel. Yes. So to jump right into it, why don’t you tell our audience what’s the most exciting thing you’re working on right now?

[00:03:32] Shanee Ben-Zur: Actually tell you about two exciting things.

[00:03:33] Donny Dvorin: You can tell me about three exciting things.

[00:03:35] Shanee Ben-Zur: the two things that I’m really excited about right now are one. So I work for Crunchbase. and it’s one of those companies that people either have a, oh, I love Crunchbase. Or is that a gym? Um, and what Crunchbase is it’s a platform where people can prospect for opportunities at private companies.

[00:03:51] And we’re really well known in the. Kind of like entrepreneurs looking for investor space and investors looking for entrepreneurs. But what we’re working on right now [00:04:00] is expanding that brand recognition into the fact that we also help like salespeople find prospects. People find companies that they can buy from or recruiters to find candidates who are at private companies.

[00:04:10] So it’s pretty much anybody who’s doing sort of a deal with somebody at a private company can use Crunchbase. and it’s been a really interesting experience as a marketer to try to figure out how do you take something that’s beloved already. And expand that love to more things. and what’s interesting about it is oftentimes when people have a preconceived notion about your brand, it can be difficult to actually say like, yes, we’re that?

[00:04:32] And we’re also this, so that’s one. exciting thing that we’re working on and it’s pretty challenging. and that’s at the very top of the funnel of what my team is focused on. And then the other thing that I’m excited about is actually on the opposite end of the funnel. We’re beginning to rev up all of our growth engine work.

[00:04:47] So it’s a lot of figuring out how we look at all the places where a customer could buy Crunchbase within our website, by Crunchbase from our sales team and just optimizing everything that’s happening within there. So it’s really. Two [00:05:00] ends of the spectrum and we’re working on both at the same time.

[00:05:03] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. Yeah. I think about two things. I think about LinkedIn, how they were like a recruiting platform. And then they launched selling advertising. And then there’s a lot of things that you can buy from LinkedIn today, but I’m sure they went through the same,growth challenges

[00:05:18] it’s a challenge of marketers to decide what they want to lead with and not confuse the audience, but also tell them, everything that you got.

[00:05:31] Shanee Ben-Zur: Totally. And that’s been a big part of the exercises. Like if we had to explain Crunchbase in one sentence, now that we’re expanding everything crunch was, can do. What would that be? And it’s much easier to write a long thing than it is to write a short thing, ask anybody who’s done social media and they’ll say the hardest part is fitting everything into the character limits.

[00:05:50] And I think, that’s a great exercise for anybody in marketing is can you say the thing you want to say in 12 words or less?

[00:05:57] Donny Dvorin: And that’s also a very Steve jobs thing. Like how do you [00:06:00] take everything and make it really simple? like how do you make that one?

[00:06:03] Do so much where it was competing with Blackberry at the time, which had, hundreds, not hundreds, at least 26 different buttons.

[00:06:09] Shanee Ben-Zur: Yeah. what my iPhone has fewer and fewer buttons and fewer and fewer reports. And I think eventually it’s just going to be like a piece of paper.

[00:06:16] Donny Dvorin: And I saw just, yesterday that they’re getting rid of that black line at the time. even though that’s not really a button, there was some screenshot of somebody had the next version of the iPhone and that’s going away too.

[00:06:28] Shanee Ben-Zur: This is what happens when you’ve optimized so much.

[00:06:30] And you’re just, grasping at straws. You’re like, there’s one little scratch. I don’t like on this. I’ll just take that right off.

[00:06:37] Donny Dvorin: Yeah

[00:06:37] So you have a great story about shifting to digital when you let to the C-suite. can you tell us about your brief marketing moment where you exhibited some, bravery took a risk.

[00:06:47] Shanee Ben-Zur: Yeah. I mean, early in my career, it was not on the marketing path at all. I actually left college thinking I was going to go down the finance route. and I had a very. Interesting first job experience that kind of showed me that wasn’t the [00:07:00] direction I wanted to go in. and so I shifted from finance into of all things, public relations, and I didn’t even really know what PR was and I got into it and I found it was.

[00:07:09] Really exciting. You get to work with hot new companies. You get to be a storyteller, you get to make connections, you get to chat with media, you get to go to CES. and so I was doing PR for a while and I was working at sort of mid-sized PR agency. and. not to date myself, but it was the beginning of social media while I was there at least social media for companies.

[00:07:28] And they had this fledgling social media business that was also,like a digital platform business. And I started working on some projects alongside my PR work. That was more social media specific and community management oriented. and eventually I realized I really loved the more community side versus the PR side.

[00:07:46] And I had to have a conversation with one of the more senior folks at the agency to let them know, Hey, I’d like to make this transition. I want to get off of my PR accounts and just be 100% on the digital accounts. It was an [00:08:00] extremely nerve wracking conversation because I was still really young, really early in my career.

[00:08:05] And I had no. challenged and authority figure in that way to say, I don’t want to do what you want me to do. I want to do what I want to do. And, the conversation was, interesting. I think I understand where this person was coming from. I think they were trying to look out for my,well-being, but their perspective was, Hey, PR has been around for much longer than social media.

[00:08:25] So if what you’re looking for is career growth opportunities and career longevity. I wouldn’t hitch my cart to this new horse. I would maintain this hybrid motion of being a PR person and a social media person. and that if you go a hundred percent into social media, you might be limiting your career prospects in the future.

[00:08:42] I love conflict, but I’m a rule follower. And I just thought is this the first time in my life where I will just. 100% disagree with the person who knows more than me. Who’s more mature than I am. Who’s more experienced than I am. And I looked inward and I thought like, how happy would I be if I continued doing both?[00:09:00]

[00:09:00] And I just knew I was going to be dissatisfied, I’d probably get frustrated. I’d probably get angry. And I just, in that moment that, Even if my career is limited, I’ll be working on something that I’m excited to do. and one of my clients was based in Europe and I was waking up at 4:00 AM every morning and helping them with community management.

[00:09:18] And I was happy to do it. every day was super fun. Every challenge was super interesting. one of my clients was PlayStation at the time I hosted PlayStation’s very first meetup in the middle of a king taco and LA. there were just so many things that I loved. I knew in that moment, I would rather do what I loved,And I just did it. I told him, I hear you, I appreciate your perspective. I disagree. I want to do this. Can I please do this? and to their credit, they let me do it. And. As a result, it really sent me on a path

[00:09:45] and everything snowballed after that. And I feel lucky that I have this PR background because that’s what makes me a great storyteller. and also a good litmus test of what is interesting or not for a couple. But the digital was interesting because that’s what got me more of the kind of [00:10:00] analytics experience, more of the connection to the customer versus the media.

[00:10:05] So for me, it ended up being a great decision and luckily social media is not dead. Luckily digital actually just got more and more complex more and more opportunities expanded from it. But it was definitely a fork in the road or in my career where I just had to choose what I had the most passion for versus what people who are more.

[00:10:24] senior and seasoned than I am told me would be bigger opportunity. It’s a

[00:10:28] Donny Dvorin: great point. Senior people are going based off of their experience, but what they don’t know is what excites you. And I’ve always said that as far as, when people come to me for a job, advice, I always ask that question.

[00:10:43] What excites you? when you’re going to wake up in the morning, and you just think of this is the job I wanted. Which one is it? And like, don’t even think about it, just like which one is it? And they always have an answer and I’m like, I know that one’s $10,000 less or whatever it is, go take that one because [00:11:00] you’ll do better at it.

[00:11:00] You’ll make up the money, And yeah, it’s

[00:11:02] Shanee Ben-Zur: really hard to, because I think the current generation of new employees entering into the workforce, they have a much clear expectation about what. career growth should look like? I feel like people who are newer in their career come to me and they say, I want to know my levels.

[00:11:18] I want to know what it takes to get to the next level. There’s a lot more ownership and self determination than I think I had when I first entered into the workforce.

[00:11:27] so your bio says you’re one part storyteller and one part data analyst in one part armchair psychologist. Can you elaborate on each of these hats and how they show up in your role at Crunchbase?

[00:11:38] Yeah, I.

[00:11:39] feel each of those things is a very big part of who I am as a person. And so that plays out in what I’m like as an employee. the storyteller part of me is grew up as a latchkey kid and I love watching TV. I still do. It’s part of my introduction to every new employee at Crunchbase when I’m doing onboarding is hi, I’m shinny.

[00:11:59] I love [00:12:00] television. So I think my love for television also helped me. Build a love for storytelling, all the different types of stories. There are from, dramatic stories of a hero, trying to go on a big journey, to love stories, to drama, to loss, and. Understanding those kinds of common themes has helped me be a better marketer because I bring those to the storytelling from my products.

[00:12:21] We don’t have to be boring. there’s no rule that says marketing has to be boring. Even if you’re maybe potentially marketing a boring product, like you could still make it interesting. Um, so that’s the storytelling part of me is I love the emotional part of this. The analyst is, I’m also extremely logical.

[00:12:38] I’m sure people on my team both love and hate that, but I’m the person where I say, don’t give me access to the dashboard unless you want me to have access to the dashboard because I’ll go in there and I’ll slice and dice numbers because I really care about understanding whether the work that we’re doing as an organization is actually contributing to the metrics that matter to the company.

[00:12:56] I think so often there’s the. Feeling within [00:13:00] marketing where it’s kind of like, well, we can’t measure what we’re doing and people don’t know that we’re doing a good job. I don’t subscribe to that. Like maybe you can’t track everything you’re doing to a dollar value, but there’s always a metric.

[00:13:11] There’s a metric somewhere. And if you can get people to understand why the metric you’re choosing as a metric, that matters, then you can actually start to tell whether your initiatives and campaigns are good or not. You shouldn’t be measured based off of the number of things you do should be measured based off of what you’re doing to move the company forward.

[00:13:28] So that’s analyst part of me. And then the armchair psychologist is I think we oftentimes lose sight of the fact that we are marketing to human beings.

[00:13:37] And it’s really important to think about what is the human experience, everything from like, how hard is it for me to buy your product on your website? If it’s a pain in the, you know, then they’re probably not going to want to buy it. So we need this like heightened level of empathy for people and their experiences.

[00:13:54] And that will translate to. What you do as a marketer, what you do as a product person, [00:14:00] even what you do as a founder for your customers. And for me, it’s like these three pillars of my personality all come together and help me be hopefully good at my job and also good at helping the people at my team achieve what they’re trying to achieve, because it’s really important as leaders that we understand similar to what we were talking about, that our goal is not just to get people to do what we want them.

[00:14:22] Our goal is to help people achieve more, be more proud of themselves, get to a place they never thought they could. And because of that, hopefully the company will also benefit, but our primary goal should be help. These people be who they want to

[00:14:36] Donny Dvorin: be. It’s interesting that, you’ve worked for, like sometimes marketing to B2B.

[00:14:40] And people are like, oh, we’re doing B2B marketing. it’s so different. Like the people buying B to B aren’t people like they’re people too, you got to market to them like humans, not like. Different type of

[00:14:53] Shanee Ben-Zur: marketing. Yeah. Ithat’s why everybody’s talking about like the consumerization of it.

[00:14:57] I think they’re both realizing that the user [00:15:00] experience of the products has to be more delightful. Like just because you’re selling a B2B product doesn’t mean the product experience needs to be painful or difficult. If you make the product experience more delightful than you can make the brand more delightful than you can make the marketing more delightful.

[00:15:16] And like, why wouldn’t we want things to be. More delightful. I don’t understand the obsession with like, no, no, no.no. We’re dry. It needs to be.

[00:15:26] Donny Dvorin: And our opening Jingo, we share that great marketers need an edge to stand out. What are some of the bolder changes you responsible for our Crunchbase in your new promotion to CMS?

[00:15:36] Shanee Ben-Zur: So I’ve been at Crunchbase for about three years, and I would say a lot of the things that I’ve worked on have been cooking over time. but in the last year or so, some of the big changes that I’ve worked on are one, we completely revamped our skews. So the products that we’re selling, we did a full kind of pricing and packaging redo, and it’s already.

[00:15:57] Kind of paying dividends for us. It’s much [00:16:00] easier for customers to tell what’s the right product for them. we’re able to increase the kind of upsell rate of our users. We’re able to increase the average revenue per account. So that was a really big, exciting project to work on because. if anybody has worked on pricing and packaging, they know 90% of the project is how do you get alignment from internal stakeholders to take this big leap?

[00:16:20] And there’s a lot of data and analytics that you can do, but at the end of the day, at some point you just have to make a choice and people have to be comfortable with we’re going to test this and hopefully it will. But it might not, in which case we have to go back to the drawing board. so I was really excited to work on that project.

[00:16:35] I had an incredible team of people who were partnering on it from all different parts of the organization and we made it happen in record time. I mean, I’ve never seen a pricing and packaging rollout happen as quickly as we did it and it’s been going great. so that’s one of the things I think was bold because we existed for so long with the same product.

[00:16:53] And we came back and we said, nah, we want to do this differently. And we left space for more products to come in the future too. And then related to [00:17:00] that, were calling it the unified, our funnel. So previously there was like a direct sales business where we were selling outbound. And then there was our self serve business where people were coming to our website and they were buying products there.

[00:17:11] And what I worked with the company on is how do we. This view where everybody who comes to our website could be a purchaser of any product. It’s not just our enterprise product is only sold through a direct sales, outbound motion. It’s anybody who comes to Crunchbase and is a free user is a potential prospect for maybe our starter product or pro product or our enterprise product.

[00:17:33] And then we can actually start to see net retention as a. No matter where somebody started, it’s where they are getting to. They could get from one seat of pro two 50 seats of our enterprise product. We should be following them on that journey rather than seeing it as two different businesses, like a direct sales and a self-serve business.

[00:17:51] No, it’s just one unified funnel where every prospect has the potential to be. Any kind of customer and it’s been great. I think the company has been super receptive [00:18:00] to it. I think we’re seeing a bunch of opportunities where now, like our SDRs and our self-serve growth team are working really close together.

[00:18:07] we’re trying to find ways how we can support the outbound AEs by telling them like, Hey, it looks like one of your named accounts actually just landed on our web. You should reach out to them right now. So creating this kind of overall view of everybody just creates way more opportunities

[00:18:22] Donny Dvorin: internally.

[00:18:23] And it goes to that point about the B2B marketer is also a human too. So someone may come because, during COVID they got really into investing and they’re doing some investment on the side, but in their full-time job, they work for, whatever it is, a VC. And it’s like, oh wait, you know what, maybe we need 50 seats of Crunchbase for our entire, VC team or whatever it is.

[00:18:39] could see it like going back and forth all the time. So you do have to treat each person that comes in for a self-serve for one seat as the, prospect for a

[00:18:47] Shanee Ben-Zur: hundred seats. Like we see that there are some salespeople who buy Crunchbase on their personal credit card because it gives them an edge over the other AEs on the team, because they’re finding new accounts that those AEs aren’t finding, and then they’re hitting their quota.

[00:18:59] [00:19:00] And then once we see that. A number of those individual AEs are buying it at the same company that gives us an opportunity to reach out to their ops person and say, Hey, it looks like you’re actually paying for like 10 disparate seats of pro already. Would you like to start talking about like bulk discounting?

[00:19:15] Would you like to start talking about like unlimited access to contacts? Like these are things that we can only see because we have unified this funnel view. We have unified our view of our prospects. We couldn’t do that before.

[00:19:27] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. And LinkedIn’s the same exact way. If I have 10 people on my team and they see five people or, have seats, they come to me and they’re like, oh, if you buy the enterprise, you also get access to the dashboard.

[00:19:38] And it’s also cheaper proceed. And it’s like, okay, that actually makes sense. So are you guys running ads? Tell me about your media side of your business.

[00:19:47] Shanee Ben-Zur: Yeah. So Crunchbase is lucky in that we have an insane, organic search volume. So we have so much content, Crunchbase, you can imagine it as there’s a database on which we’ve layered software that helps you parse through the database, but [00:20:00] that presence of data also equals many URLs, many search results.

[00:20:05] So Crunchbase has an enormous amount of search traffic of people looking for information about private companies. So on the one hand, that’s great because that means you don’t have to be spending as much money in SEM and display. On the other hand, when you do want to start spending in advertising, it’s not always very obvious where you should spend that money so that you’re not actually cannibalizing yourself.

[00:20:24] I E paying for something you wouldn’t have to pay. So

[00:20:27] Shanee Ben-Zur: right now we’re spending a most of our budget on retargeting people who are either cart abandoners or have shown that they’re like a product qualified lead. I either more engaged. but we haven’t shifted into the aggressive brand advertising mainly because we’re lucky enough to have 70 million people who are coming to our website every year on their own.

[00:20:46] So in my mind, I want to focus on the parts of our funnel that. ones that have the biggest opportunity gaps. And that’s really more about the, how do we get all of those free users to turn into paying customer? And then eventually once we get good at that, and we’ve tightened the bottom of the [00:21:00] funnel, then I can confidently go out and start spending on top of funnel, brand advertising, because I know those people are going to come in and get caught by a super effective product led growth machine.

[00:21:09] That’s great. are you guys thinking about user privacy at all, or that doesn’t really come up with?

[00:21:13] Oh, for sure. it’s part of every discussion that we have even on down to, how are we managing. the emails that we’re sending, do we need to get more sophisticated email on subscription center so that people have more granular control?

[00:21:25] we don’t. So the contact data that we have comes from third-party companies that all have very strong GDPR, CCPA compliance. we’re not the owners of the contact data ourselves. So that also helps. but we’re always vetting and we offer people like very easy opportunities to take themselves out.

[00:21:43] The interesting thing about Crunchbase is unlike a pure business database, people want to be on Crunchbase because it’s also. Uh, way that you advertise yourself much. Like people want to be on LinkedIn. Like you put your profile on LinkedIn because you want to get discovered. You want a recruiter to [00:22:00] find you or a bee person to find you.

[00:22:02] And we’re finding the same thing is true for Crunchbase. Startup entrepreneurs feel like if I’m not on Crunchbase, are people going to even know that I exist? And it’s true, we have this insane SEO helps not just us. It helps these entrepreneurs. Oftentimes our reach is much more than a young startups reach of their own company website.

[00:22:22] So by adding themselves to Crunchbase, they raise their approach. With the investors with other salespeople, with other BD people. And so from that perspective, we’re lucky in that people want their information to be on Crunchbase and they have control over it as

[00:22:33] Donny Dvorin: well. So outside of Crunchbase a little bit, what do you think is the biggest threat going on in the marketing or advertising industry?

[00:22:41] Shanee Ben-Zur: I mean, it’s kind of like, you start with this, like Maslow’s hierarchy. I think there’s the threat to the world, which is we have this pandemic that is yet unresolved and it’s affecting the way everything works. every single supply chain in the world has been impacted by COVID. and I think that trickles down to people’s buying behavior.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] I think people are tired. I think they’re emotionally. Run out of juice. And I think that’s gonna play out in people’s buying habits as well. And within the enterprise. You know that people have talked about this, huge upheaval that’s going to happen within the employee market, where people are questioning, like, why do I work at this company?

[00:23:19] I’ve just been through the craziest thing in my life. I’m questioning how I spend every single minute, because life is short. So you’re going to see all these employees begin to change companies. And if employees are changing companies, then like your buyers might be changing companies. And if you talk to any salesperson.

[00:23:34] The worst feeling is when you’re in the like last stage of closing a deal. And then the person’s like I’ve left the company and now you have to go and find a whole new stakeholder. So I think it’s going to be really difficult for salespeople, really difficult for marketers where you’re trying to land something with people who are going to be extremely mobile now, especially cause

[00:23:53] We have so many people who are able to work remotely. Changing companies is going to happen like a snap. It’s not going to be like before. [00:24:00] And I think a big part of that is going to happen in the next six months. And I’ll be interested to see how marketers and salespeople deal with that because it’s inevitable, right?

[00:24:09] I’m sure you feel it. I’m sure everybody listening feels it. My LinkedIn has never had so many recruiters in my inbox before. And it’s because there are way more opportunities. People are way more mobile. Most of the job opportunities in the sort of tech world now are remote. So you could get any job anywhere.

[00:24:25] And now how, how are you going to market to those

[00:24:27] Donny Dvorin: people? Oh, it’s the same thing that retail is going through too. You go try to go to a restaurant and they’re like, oh, we’re short on the kitchen staff. We’re short on the waiters. So every, blue collar, white collar, they, all the industries have their challenges where, it’s just seems like there’s more supply than demand. There’s more jobs out there which is good for people like me and you you know, who are in jobs. But not great for employers that really need really good

[00:24:52] Shanee Ben-Zur: talent.

[00:24:52] Yeah. It’s I think there’s going to be many different kinds of market corrections. people talked about it in the housing market, but you talk [00:25:00] about the people who are doing, hourly wage work. they probably were unfairly compensated before. That’s why they’re like, why would I go back if I could get compensated better somewhere else?

[00:25:08] So there’s going to be a lot of like redistribution of opportunities, hopefully redistribution of wealth, in some ways, hopefully more people who have been underrepresented will get more opportunities. I’m looking at this with a little bit of an optimistic lens at the macro view. I hope this ends up being a better thing for more people from like me and my job view is going to be challenging.

[00:25:27] It’s going to be hard

[00:25:28] Donny Dvorin: as a marketer. yeah. what do you think is the biggest opportunity right now in marketing? I

[00:25:32] Shanee Ben-Zur: think that people. Are more purpose driven now than they were before related to what we were talking about. And so as marketers, I think we have more opportunities to create more purpose driven focus within our companies.

[00:25:47] prior to this moment, it was probably like your CEO would reach out and be like, say something about. Diversity. And as a marketer, you think, I don’t want to say something about diversity. I want our company to do something about [00:26:00] diversity, equity and inclusion. And then I want to tell other people about what we’ve already done.

[00:26:04] And I think in this kind of new world, now there is no hiding behind. Oh, I did a status update, so that’s good enough. There’s so much more visibility. There’s so much more scrutiny. And so I think marketers have an opportunity if they care about this topic to actually go internally and say, we really need to do is make some change happen internally.

[00:26:23] What we really need to do is to take action before we start talking about it in my mind, I think that’s a huge, meaningful opportunity for marketers. And I think consumers are also looking for more purpose driven companies. So if the first thing happens at either company actually takes an action and then the marketer can tell people about it.

[00:26:42] Then the customers will see that too. And they’ll have You know, a more positive view of the brand and it’s going to be challenging, right? Because what, you don’t want us to have everybody being like, we care about world peace. Like you have to find something that’s an authentic thing that you can contribute to.

[00:26:56] But if you do it, customers will appreciate it. More. [00:27:00] The people in your community will appreciate it more. it’ll actually be that self fulfilling prophecy that we’ve always wanted where doing good leads to.

[00:27:07] Donny Dvorin: My last question to you is can you nominate another brave marketer that we should have?

[00:27:11] Shanee Ben-Zur: Ithere are a lot of incredible marketers that I’ve had the opportunity to work alongside. I think another great person to talk to would be Katie awesome. she taught me the power of. Creating space for the other people around me. when you’re first coming up, you think I have to have the loudest voice in the room.

[00:27:28] People have to know that I’m smart. People have to hear me. And what Kadie showed me is actually there’s more strength in embracing. The silence and creating space for the people that you admire and trust. And people won’t think that you’re not as smart because you’re not as loud people actually might be like, wow, this person is so confident.

[00:27:48] She’s not over, she’s not overreaching. and I was so lucky to be able to observe that from cat. And, trying really hard to integrate that into my own. Great. That’s awesome.

[00:27:58] Donny Dvorin: Well, Shannon, thank you [00:28:00] so much for being on the podcast. We really enjoyed you having audit. I thought it was a great conversation today.

[00:28:05] Thanks for

[00:28:06] Shanee Ben-Zur: having me.

[00:28:07] Donny Dvorin: If you like what you heard today and found a valuable, it would be super helpful if you took one minute to leave us a short review in apple podcasts, every review counts and helping us to get our shows and more ears on one final note, if you have a brand product or service that you’d like to get in front of.

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[00:28:42] Again, email ad sales@brave.com and finally musical credit goes. Older brother, Ari, Devon, his music and inspiration is a pleasure to listen to every day. And until next time we’ll talk to you [00:29:00] then.