[00:00:00] Donny Dvorin: No industry changes faster than modern marketing. Great marketers need an edge. Great marketers need to be brave. The brave marketer podcast provides an opportunity for each guest to share a story where they exhibited bravery by taking a risk. They made a dramatic impact in the market. Our guests are marketers from top brands and agencies who share the exact strategy.

[00:00:30] The tactics they used in their brief marketing moment. We then dive deep into topics like ethical advertising, consumer privacy, crypto marketing, brand safety, and navigating a future without third party cookies, hosted by brave software and me Donny. Head of sales outbreak together. We’ll get a backstage view of the brave marketing moments and creative mindset work that shaping today’s most influential brands.

[00:00:55] Yeah.

[00:00:56] [00:01:00] You’re listening to a new episode of the brave marketer, the cast, and this one features Andra Zaharia cyber security content marketer Andra helps cybersecurity companies, crush cliches with content that breeds fans and fuels growth. She brings over a decade of digital marketing experience focused on startups and scale-ups half of what she spent in the cybersecurity industry.

[00:01:22] Acting as a bridge between technical pros and business leaders, when she’s not fighting InfoSec, marketing BS, she talks to high performers about their decision making process for our own podcast called how you know, and before we hop into today’s episode, we want to highlight our brave pick of the week and we choose a brand.

[00:01:41] That’s run again, the pain with us. And this week we’re choosing Norton life. Northern LifeLock is a company that helps keep users safe. Online is very apropos with our online privacy theme with device security, VPN for online privacy and identity theft protection. All in one, they ran a push notification ad campaign on brave to raise [00:02:00] awareness about their company and their products in a privacy respecting way.

[00:02:03] And now for today’s episode of the bruise marketer.

[00:02:15] Hi Andra, , nice to have you on the brave marketer podcast. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day and joining us. How are you doing?

[00:02:26] Andra Zaharia: I’m good. I’m so good. I’m so pumped for this especially because I’ve been, using and following brave for such a long time. And I love the way that you show up for the community and the way that you talk about everything that you do, and especially the things that you do.

[00:02:42] and I often referenced brave, as an example, Here’s how to do InfoSec comms. Right. And here’s how to put a great product forward. So I’m very psyched to be here.

[00:02:52] Donny Dvorin: Oh, good. Well, we’re excited to have you as well. so why don’t we just start with telling us what’s the most exciting thing you’re working [00:03:00] on right now?

[00:03:01] Andra Zaharia: this is actually the first time I’m talking publicly about it. Not that I’m some kind of superstar, but this is actually the first time I get to talk about my new kind of pet project, which will be, a new podcast. That’s focused on empathy. It’s going to be called cyber empathy. it’s going to be all about, getting people in tune with one another and showing that human quality.

[00:03:21] So pervasive and so important to cyber security and privacy and everything in between. So I’m currently recording. It’s not live yet, but I’m very excited about it because it gives me a chance to not only talk about the things that I care deeply about, but also, I’m going to finally get to talk to a lot of people that I’ve been following in this pace for, over five years.

[00:03:45] Donny Dvorin: andgetting them in a conversation around those things that we care deeply about. good.

[00:03:50] And as background, Are your passions. What are you really excited about in the sense of this podcast? You want to talk about empathy and you want to talk about the things that, get you [00:04:00] rallied up during the day. What are those things? So

[00:04:02] Andra Zaharia: those things sit at the intersection of technology and in psychology and human nature, because the more I.

[00:04:08] Studied cybersecurity and a core concept. So I could, put out content that helps companies put their best work forward. And that also helps,readers into community to advance their own knowledge and invest in growing skills. The more I did this, the more I realized that fundamentally it’s all about human nature and getting people to pay attention because we as humans, we’re not very good at doing proactive stuff and we can see this all around us.

[00:04:35] So,actually triggering some sort of change, whether it’s in mindset or behavior or. Or anything, requires that deep understanding of what makes humans actually respond and actually, feel motivated to act for change. So what gets me excited in the morning and what gets me going and what keeps me, pouring all of this energy into this field, it’s A [00:05:00] mix of wanting to pass on what I understand about cyber security and how it’s changed my perspective and how it’s made my life easier and how it helps me navigate, through this hyper complex world that we live in and pass that onto people so they can make better decisions for themselves.

[00:05:17] And you mentioned things that motivate the change. what do you think really motivates people to make these changes?

[00:05:23] Well, it’s two things from what I’ve seen from what I’ve observed in my own behavior, it’s either moving away from pain. I’ve seen people, change their behavior when something.

[00:05:33] Dramatic or truly painful happens to them, whether this is,going through a cyber attack or falling victim to a phishing scam or whatever it is, that’s usually prompted the fastest change and the fastest reaction. and then there’s moving towards something that has a positive.

[00:05:52] Effect on their lives. And that’s a bit harder to create because we’re now so used to, just [00:06:00] instant gratification that it’s difficult to get people to consider the long-term implications of their actions. But I think that there’s a lot of. Around self-awareness that people are doing. I don’t want to generalize, but we’ve probably all noticed this in the people around us, whether they’re our colleagues or friends or,partners or bosses or whoever they are.

[00:06:23] we’ve noticed that there’s been this moment where we had to pause sit with ourselves for a longer while, then we would have, habitually. So I think that. What gets people to change are these two things. And I hope that, what we’re doing and cybersecurity helps people do this from a place of, let’s say optimism and not from a place of despair or, a moment where they feel they have an emergency situation that they need to deal with.

[00:06:52] Donny Dvorin: It’s almost like there’s a line and like below the line, Is all the negative stuff and the problems that [00:07:00] people have either with cybersecurity or could be with their own lives, and then above the line is more of the opportunistic and people just fine, but they want to do better or they want to have better cyber security.

[00:07:11] And it’s interesting that it’s like, you talk about like down here, it’s a, it’s like fear and you just want to get to like normal. And then above here, you just want, you want to Excel. You want to be better. And I think that. There are so many correlations to that. It’s I think even about like meditation, I think that people sometimes meditate because they’re trying to heal something because they’re in so much either physical or mental pain and they would just want to get to back to right.

[00:07:37] Or they say they’re regular, but they want to get to a more place of Zen or bliss or whatever it is. And they want to get above the line. And I think that, like that concept of the duality of wanting to make a change that can apply to almost everything in life, everything in business, everything with relationships that you have,

[00:07:58] Andra Zaharia: this is what we’re here for

[00:07:59] Donny Dvorin: [00:08:00] exactly.

[00:08:00] On these podcasts. we can ask dry questions or we can just take it a step further, we can. So the brave marketer podcast is all about that moment in time, where you took a risk and that risk may have been because of something negative that was happening and he wants to get back to that normal place, or you want it to just go above and beyond.

[00:08:19] So Andrea, for our audience, can you tell us about your, brave marketing moment that you decided to choose for this podcast?

[00:08:25] Andra Zaharia: Best moment happened not too long ago. It actually happened last year when I decided to fully commit to the industry. when I started freelancing almost three years ago, I had other customers that were in the tech space, but not as necessarily focused on cyber security.

[00:08:39] So I had this internal conflict where I knew that to do my best work. I had to say niche, but at the same time there was that fear. Not having enough clients to begin with and, also D imposter syndrome issue that creeps up every now and then, because I don’t come from a tech background.

[00:08:57] So I had this moment where I decided [00:09:00] that I would commit fully to the industry and then I’m going to exclusively dedicate, my work.

[00:09:05] And also my, some of my personal projects to this phase. but I wanted to carve out a mission for myself, not just be someone who creates content and cyber cybersecurity, but actually have a mission that aligns with my principles and what I want to contribute to this space in this community.

[00:09:22] So that’s when I decided that, by looking at the work that I was doing and the kind of conversations I had. In the past years with clients and former employers and teammates, I realized that I actually was advocating for using a certain type of language for breaking down stereotypes for not using cliches.

[00:09:42] So I decided that would be my mission that I would take on publicly that mission of,fighting against cliches and fighting against myths and just things that. Being rehashed over and over again in the industry without a basis. And just creates this sort [00:10:00] of communication. That just goes right.

[00:10:02] Not through people, but around them because they don’t resonate with those things. Things like,military grade security and unhackable and all sorts of things that lack nuance, and lack empathy. since we were talking about that earlier, since did that, the effect was, honestly it was a bit surprising to me as well, because I started striking up conversations with people who believe in the same things from very different geographies, from the us to Australia, from very different niches as well.

[00:10:35] started to see that people are interested. Like, okay. What do you mean by these cliches? what did they look like? What did they sound like? Why are they true? so it was a moment of bravery for me because I had to overcome that imposter syndrome. And I had to trust myself that.

[00:10:50] I knew what I was doing, that I could put my best work forward and that I could continue with my mission specifically in the [00:11:00] cybersecurity space.

[00:11:00] So I’m really glad that I did it. and that was actually inspired by. a course that I did, and a fellow marketer who is, quite brave himself.

[00:11:10] He was always an example for me. his name is Lee Grenier, and he does the everyone hates marketers podcast. and

[00:11:18] Andra Zaharia: he’s, very good at helping other marketers overcome their self-limiting. Which is, what his contribution to my story was.

[00:11:26] Donny Dvorin: Got it. so when you think about marketing as a whole, what do you think are the biggest, threats or challenges that we face as an industry?

[00:11:33] Andra Zaharia: Ooh, for me, it’s one thing, especially because I focus a lot. Exclusively actually on organic growth. I think that it’s, over-reliance on advertising and the entire model that’s behind it. I think that over Alliance on advertising makes things very transactional and as technology evolves and hopefully this, entire push for, stronger privacy for, a different model of.

[00:11:58] Capturing [00:12:00] and retaining attention that’s not as aggressive as intrusive as manipulative. let’s be honest, as these kind of changes and as a compound effect of all of these efforts pile up to me, I think that we’re going to be in a place where marketers won’t have the. Easy instant gratification way out with their work.

[00:12:25] So they’re going to have to figure out, what does. marketing looked like in a cookie, less future since we’re talking about that. And I see it at many marketers are already dealing with this because so many people use ad blockers. And of course, if you use brave, you’re going to have it, built in and it’s going make your life so much easier.

[00:12:43] So what does it look like when people stop paying attention, how do you actually, create that human connection and not just do everything in a way that feels too transactional too cold and too devoid of, that human [00:13:00] touch that we all crave for. that is the biggest challenge not.

[00:13:03] paying attention to what’s sustainable and to, what people need, in the long run,

[00:13:08] Because I really believe in it that, so that’s our

[00:13:10] Donny Dvorin: biggest threat that we’re facing right now. And what about the biggest opportunity that you think marketers have right now?

[00:13:16] Andra Zaharia: Oh, that’s something that I’m super, keen on, talking about and connecting gone.

[00:13:21] I think that building a sustainable. Way to achieve growth, sustainable growth system. That is the biggest opportunity that we have. very much against hypergrowth and against the hustle and everything that goes with that, which I saw a lot in the startup world. And I keep seeing, cause work a lot with startups, but I also see that there’s.

[00:13:45] Much stronger interest in actually, building a sustainable growth engine that works, and that gets people to. follow a brand and connect with a brand on what I’d call decentralized channels, things like [00:14:00] RSS and email, and the old school stuff. That’s very reliable and stable, and that gives you direct access to people and, the privilege of capturing their time and attention and energy.

[00:14:12] So to me, I think, especially in the B2B space, there’s this opportunity to talk to people. They are people. And there are people behind the company that’s creating the product or the service. And this is especially important in cybersecurity and privacy where language can be stark and things are very abstract.

[00:14:31] And they’re very devoid of feeling in sometimes. So,what I think the opportunity here is to bring out the human value. That’s behind the company, the human value of each team member and their stories and help those stories, just put them into the spotlight and through them, connect people.

[00:14:52] Through empathy, through shared beliefs, and things that don’t really change. I think that’s so much of [00:15:00] advertising. so much of marketing is focused on trends. It’s focused on the latest channels and things like that. But accompanies. Engineer, and then actually built sustainable growth focused on the things that don’t change, things that are inherent to human nature principles that have worked forever.

[00:15:17] Things that rely on quality. And then actually, doing good by your promise,as a company. So that’s what I,hope to see more of. I’m glad that I see more of that. Even in the cybersecurity space, in the privacy space and many other areas as well. And I hope that people take that path because I’ve seen it be a rewarding trajectory for everyone involved from CEO’s to everyone else in the team for customers as well.

[00:15:44] Donny Dvorin: Got

[00:15:44] it. As you talk about, actual people and online privacy, What do you think consumers should do when they consider their own online privacy? And maybe are there any quick action steps that they can take to protect themselves a bit more?

[00:15:58] Andra Zaharia: So, first of all, and [00:16:00] I think that this is very important is for them to find someone they trust, whether it’s someone in the family or someone among their friends or someone online on YouTube or whatever channel that they use, they should find someone they trust because that.

[00:16:15] Moment of trust. That relationship is the basis for them to open up to doing things that they might not be comfortable with because having trust in someone else also builds trust in yourself. Then you can do these sayings, and that they’re not, a different monster that you’re unable to tackle.

[00:16:32] And once you have that, you’re much more receptive to information. And speaking of, a few very small things to have a big impact, it’s things like turning on two factor authentication for your main accounts, which can save you from a world of trouble. It’s things like, using a password manager.

[00:16:51] Things like using a secure browser that will filter out a bunch of things from you, for you, things that happened in the background and that you don’t have [00:17:00] access to, if you don’t have the tech, know how to get there. and I really believe in embedded privacy and embedded security, I think that, brave is doing, for example, fairly good job at doing that at embedding all of these things into the product itself.

[00:17:15] So then people don’t have to jump through hoops. To get them and to enjoy DC things, that they think they have on other platforms and that they don’t. but it’s also about, having access to these things. And that’s why I think it’s so important to find those people who we really trust because they give us access to, they open up our views too.

[00:17:34] Various products and solutions behaviors and examples and stories. But without having that initial, connection, that’s marked by trust. none of this can happen because honestly have so much to deal with right now, every single one of us that it’s very difficult to find a mind space and the energy for it.

[00:17:53] But if you have the human connection, you suddenly find a resources for it.

[00:17:57] Donny Dvorin: Got it. Good. this has been really, [00:18:00] great. And we’re happy to have you on my last question for you is if you hadn’t done X, you wouldn’t be here today. What does that X for you?

[00:18:09] Andra Zaharia: This is going to sound really dorky.

[00:18:12] But if I hadn’t started a personal blog back in 2008, I wouldn’t be here today. That was the trigger for, I guess my entire. Career, but my entire journey as a human, not just as a professional. and as silly as that sounds, starting a blog and then becoming part of the local online community and then,connecting with the international one that’s what’s brought me here today.

[00:18:36] It. Put me in direct contact with technology in a way that felt very personal to me because I had to learn things like, dealing with WordPress and all sorts of things. and what I realized that, Hey, I could do this, and this is a great way to broaden my views and to experiment with ideas share them with the world.

[00:18:54] that’s where it all happened.

[00:18:56] Donny Dvorin: And how can people find you online? Because we know that you’re not. [00:19:00] Facebook, and you’re not on Instagram, but you are on LinkedIn and you are on Twitter.

[00:19:04] So how can people connect with you there? Yes.

[00:19:06] Andra Zaharia: you can just use my name on that as a harissa and just, I’m a quick search away. you can find me, my DMS are open. I would love to talk to people and help out. any kind of advice or,just wandering about what to use and what to do.

[00:19:22] I’m here for you and I hope to be that person that you can trust to go to someone when you need to go to someone for advice. Thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about these things that I really loved and that I really appreciate. I love that you’re doing this podcast and I love that you’re.

[00:19:38] talking about marketing, go Pauline and industry, that doesn’t really like marketers, neither cybersecurity, nor privacy loves the marketing because it comes with all of that baggage. but getting clarity and seeing the people are doing things differently, I think is an important story to tell.

[00:19:57] Donny Dvorin: Yeah, you’ve been a great guest and we appreciate it. And really [00:20:00] this podcast is for other marketers to learn from people like you. On different subjects. And we ran deep into online privacy today. And hopefully the marketers that are listening to this can, can pick up some, tools of the trade.

[00:20:13] So thank you anda for coming up. And till next week.

[00:20:16] Andra Zaharia: Thank you. Thank you to Donnie. This has been a blast.

[00:20:19] Donny Dvorin: Well, thanks for listening to another episode of brave marketer. Uh, hopefully you have some key things to take away. Uh, Andre talked about creating content that resonates with users by bringing out the human values behind the company and the products.

[00:20:35] She talked about the importance of connecting with users with empathy and shared beliefs and actual tactics and tips on protect your own privacy immediately. About two factor authentication. She talked about using a password manager. So anyway, if you liked what you heard today and found it valuable, it’d be super

[00:20:51] Donny Dvorin: helpful.

[00:20:52] If you took one minute to leave a certain review on apple podcasts, every review counts and helping us get to our shows and more ears on a final note, if you have a [00:21:00] brand product or service that you’d like to get in front of briefs, 34 million users, please email us. I’d add sales. I braved.com and let us know.

[00:21:06] You’re a podcast, countless listener to unlock one of two perks. If you want. Under $10,000 a month, we’ll bump you up to the top of our self-serve waiting list. Or if your budget is $10,000 or over a month, you’ll qualify for a 25% podcast listener discount. Again, email us@adsalesatbrave.com. And finally music credit goes to my older brother, Ari

[00:21:27] He wrote all the intro and outro music that you’re listening to both in season one and season two, we were greatly appreciative of his musical talents. So until next week, thanks so much for listening and we’ll talk to you.