[00:00:00] Donny Dvorin: Yeah, no industry changes faster than modern marketing. Great marketers need an edge. Great marketers need to be brave. The brave marketer podcast provides an opportunity for each guest to share a story where they exhibited bravery by taking a risk. They made a dramatic impact in the market. Our guests are marketers from top brands and agencies who share the exact strategy and tactics they used in their brief marketing moment. We then dive deep into topics like advertising, consumer privacy, crypto marketing, brand safety, and navigating a future without third party cookies, hosted by brave software and me Donny Dvorin head of sales outbreak together we’ll get a backstage view of the brave marketing moments and creative mindset work that shaping today’s most influential brands.

[00:00:59] You’re [00:01:00] listening to a new episode of the brave marketer podcast. And this one features Chad Stoller who’s the EVP over at U M. Think you’re really going to enjoy this one because we dive deep into this really awesome brave marketing moment. That features Terry Tate and this series about us office linebacker who basically tackles people inside of the office. And there are so many brave moments that got Chad to end up publishing this, online that I think you’ll really enjoy this story. It’s a great one. But before we get into today’s episode, we want to highlight our brave pick of the week. Every episode we choose a brand that has run an ad campaign with us.

[00:01:39] And this week we’re going to feature Gemini. Gemini has a widget. They’ve run, sponsored images. They run push notifications. Gemini is one of the biggest crypto exchanges and they use brave because we have a huge crypto audience, something like 70% of our audience buys and sell cryptocurrencies.

[00:01:58] So if advertisers want to [00:02:00] reach a crypto audience, brave is definitely the place to go. Now, in this week’s episode, you’ll meet Chad Stoller EVP. Global chief innovation officer for you and worldwide. I over at IPG and chatter responsible for the agency’s innovation agenda while working with individual clients to solve all the challenges in new ways.

[00:02:16] In addition to Chad’s role within U M Chad has served as the managing partner of the IPG media lab since 2011, the lab is the advertising industry’s longest running media futures agency with thought leadership in regards to the future of audience attention. Consumer disruption and action planning for new customer connections.

[00:02:37] Hello, Chad. Welcome to the brave marketer podcast. How are you doing today?

[00:02:42] Chad Stoller: Doing great. How are you?

[00:02:44] Donny Dvorin: I am doing well as well. Thanks so much for taking time and being on our show. And before we get to your brave marketing moment, why don’t we just talk about you and what’s going on right now? So what’s the most exciting thing that you’re working on right now?.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Chad Stoller: So we’re, you know, one of the things that I do with my job at UN is I’m always trying to look to the future and kind of bring it back to be able to, basically try to understand what are the areas that our clients are going to care about anywhere from six months to 18 months out to that being even a little bit further.

[00:03:18] So the certain areas that we’re really spending a lot of time trying to get a deeper dive on are just all the new areas of impact. Like, what is this whole impulse economy? What are the new ways that people are, you know, whether it’s discovering products or discovering ideas and how quickly are they going from their moment of discovery to a point of purchase or point of connection?

[00:03:38] So that’s an area where, me and my team, we’re spending a great deal of our time and that could be everywhere from the tools and the tactics that can enable that to understanding the platforms a little bit too. Also just maybe a little bit more of the ethnography and the understanding of the content that’s getting created and the content is getting consumed.

[00:03:55] We’d like to refer to as the impulse economy, sometimes we talk about it as the complete collapse of the [00:04:00] funnel, but either way, it’s just, we’re just trying to just get in front of you, just get in front of some of the new opportunities for demand.

[00:04:06] Donny Dvorin: Got it, what are some examples of some of the categories that may have not been impulse before, but now are impulse.

[00:04:12] Chad Stoller: I think you’re seeing it now, especially in social platforms . Right. the first wave was essentially a lot of these platforms creating this opportunity for checkout, right. Or just enabling products for sale. However, now you’re seeing them all start to not only build their own stores, but also build their own marketplaces.

[00:04:26] So I feel like,we’re seeing, you know, social platforms now becoming these. One-stop shops for impulse purchases. We’re also starting to see, and I’m kind of really excited by it. We’ve seen a lot of video platforms starting to really embrace commerce as well. And while we’re certainly not at the level of China, a door, I think the way that the video can move a lot of product in China, we’re starting to see some of these very interesting video platforms, whether they’re video on demand platforms or live video platforms, start to usher in.

[00:04:54] Opportunities for commerce and basically for sales activity. So we’re seeing so many new partners [00:05:00] that are emerging in this space.

[00:05:01] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. I mean, I think about purchases like cars, where that would probably be a very long purchase sales cycle, but now that you can buy a Tesla online, it may be one of those things where a couple of would be like, see so many Teslas on the road.

[00:05:17] They just love the way they look and like. Honey. Let’s just hop on the computer. I got tesla.

[00:05:21] Chad Stoller: Yeah, I got it. You know, dying is very funny that you say that because, we have, essentially launched a new product with BMW, which essentially it’s an AR feature for a BMW. And the part about it, that is like, so super cool is that, you know, it just has this ability where it’s like, you see the product and you want to give it a shot in terms of just seeing what it’s going to look like in your driveway.

[00:05:43] Right. like everyone likes to talk about the size of a mini, but this idea to place a mini in any kind of aspect of your environment is just like super cool. And that’s exactly the kind of like new features and new content that people want. Right. You know, it’s kind of like, they’ve seen the car, they’d demonstrate the car.

[00:05:57] They’ve talked to owners, there’s all of this [00:06:00] activity that is out there . However, now what happens is somebody wants to see, like, what does this vehicle mean to me? How is it going to fit in my life? And it’s about, just meeting the consumer where their expectations are.

[00:06:09] Donny Dvorin: Yeah, exactly right. And you’re right about the social platforms the checkout process becomes so easy, especially that they’re integrated with PayPal.

[00:06:18] And, now we’re seeing, you know, crypto purchases, there are companies that allow you to do crypto purchases with a click of a button that collect to your wallet. and let’s, you know, it’s a big thing for our audience who’s very into, crypto. So with that being said, as you know, this podcast is the brave marketer.

[00:06:34] And so we’re all about talking to marketers that are taking risks on their job. And. Seeing how it pays out is the reward worth the risk? And you have a great one with, Terry Tate Lineback series, that we would love to really dive into.

[00:06:48] Well, it was funny is that in, 2001 or 2000? I don’t even know it’s 2000, 2001, and it’s such a long time ago, but what I love about telling this particular story is [00:07:00] that this was a miracle.

[00:07:01] Chad Stoller: This, was nobody’s brain child, the program for those of you who don’t know, maybe some of your listeners don’t know it’s still to this day ranked as like one of the top 10 super bowl commercials of all time. But if the general idea was that. there is a fictitous employee named Terry Tate, who is an office linebacker.

[00:07:17] And his job is to maintain order in the office environment by simply full on tackling employees. it was a fictitious role that, this one particular manager essentially says, I’m going to hire this person to increase efficiency in my workplace and Terry T.

[00:07:31] So it went on to be a Superbowl commercial. And at the time it crushed. Any type of web video series that was out there. You know, I think the only thing to date that had ever been done was BMW films, which definitely set a really high bar, but Terry Tate office linebacker just came out and it essentially just like, it just crushed bandwidth.

[00:07:50] It was like one of these things where, you know, I wish I still had the emails from people saying I just bought terabytes of data. I don’t even know what that. So it was like, that was my favorite email that I got from [00:08:00] the CMO of Reebok at the time, Nikki pawn, who basically was like, I don’t know what a terabyte is.

[00:08:04] I don’t need to know what a terabyte is. Is it enough? You know, it was just like so funny, like AKA my bills were coming in by the day. just because they were hitting their streaming caps, but essentially it’s a funny thing because it was this idea that was just a miracle in the making.

[00:08:17] we had been working with a production company that represented a brilliant young director named Rawson Thurber, who went on to direct things like Dodge ball he’s did meet the Millers. He’s got some new Netflix show that’s coming out and stuff like that who had a random tape of this character that he had created while he was at film.

[00:08:34] And what had happened was this production company that I was doing a project with said, Hey, I read in the paper, you guys just won the Reebok count. And, I have something that’s really funny. You should just see this tape. just, if anything, show it it’ll be worth a laugh. And I was like, okay. Okay, great.

[00:08:50] I leave the office around 10 o’clock that night. And. For some reason, I left on the fifth floor of the office, not the third floor and the fifth floor. I get em, you know, the [00:09:00] security guard is like, Hey Chad, there’s somebody dropped something, offer you. And it was a tape and I put the tape in my backpack and I don’t think anything about it.

[00:09:07] I really don’t. I just go home. And then right before bed, I realized I have this tape. I should just watch it. Right. It’s just like right before I go to bed. And I watch it and I’m like, oh my God, this is like the funniest thing I’ve seen in like forever. So at the time we all had our two way pagers, the sky tell this guy told two ways and I text my boss, this guy, Peter RNL.

[00:09:32] And there’s some people out there who will know Peter RNL and people who don’t know Peter RNL, but most people know Peter arnelle’s reputation who is constantly working constantly on and then went on with two way text messages going on the entire night of like, is it good? Is it really good? Is it super bowl?

[00:09:45] Good. It’s super bowl. Great. Mike, why are we talking about a super bowl commercial? He’s like, well, they like football and you know, it was like the most ridiculous conversation. So anyway, I have this. Peter says, okay, meet me 7:00 AM. Because we’re kicking off with Reebok the next morning at like 9:00 AM.

[00:09:58] I’m sitting outside Peter’s office for [00:10:00] two hours. I never even get in there. And Peter just looks at me and goes, we’re on. You have the tape and yeah, it goes, is it good? I’m like, yes, it’s good. We’ve talked about this all night. He goes like, if it’s not good, you will lose your job. Good. I’m like, yeah, that’s good.

[00:10:11] That’s perfect. That’s like, that was kind of like every day of working for Peter RNL. I was like, if he came back the next day, you’re doing a good job. But anyway, the fact is, is that we have this tape, we play it and everybody in the room just goes. They have no idea what to think. They’ve just watched a football player in an office environment, tackle everybody whilerunning around in a Kansas city chiefs Jersey with like 56 on it, you know?

[00:10:32] And it was just like at that time, so everyone looks at me and they’re like, what should we do? And I’m just like, Super bowl. And so everyone agrees. This is great. Let’s do it. Do it. What’s it going to cost we had no idea it was making up everything as we’re going along. Didn’t even know if we could even make anything so long story short about two weeks go by.

[00:10:52] We work with the production company. We work with Ross, and then we decide let’s make a series of web films. There’ll be like five minutes a piece. We’ll do four of them. We’ll release [00:11:00] them each week after the super bowl, we’ll debut with a commercial, et cetera, et cetera. Everything’s going fine. And we’re in production and we have like three days left and all of a sudden they get a phone call and it’s a shutdown.

[00:11:10] I’m like, what do you mean?

[00:11:11] And it turns out that People are getting super nervous.

[00:11:15] Well, it was, but you know, it was like one of these things where I was like, okay, all right. But we can address that any way they say shut up. So I guess a brave moment was me realizing, I talking to my friend Mariam, I’m like, well, we’ve already paid for it. Right. And she’s like, we have already paid for it.

[00:11:30] So if we finish it or we don’t finish it, it doesn’t really matter. Right. And she’s like, exactly. So we finished it and then I’m told to put it on there. And it’s now sitting on the shelf. This is like, award-winning work. That’s just sitting on a bookshelf, you know, in a bunch of like one inch master tapes.

[00:11:45] And, I know the story goes on. but anyway, what eventually happens, what eventually happens is, Reebok gets a phone call from the NFL and says, we really need you to buy a Superbowl commercial, for various reasons. And they don’t have any creative. So they call [00:12:00] me immediately and I just get this phone call and it was just like, Do you have a one minute super bowl commercial?

[00:12:05] And I’m like, I don’t have a one minute to bowl commercial. I have four films, like now all of a sudden I’m like some director. I’m like, I have four films. I have cinema dark ready, you ready to be delivered on the internet? And, uh, I basically cut a deal with Peter Darnell at the time though, I will give you all of the tapes and you can make the most wonderful Superbowl commercial, but I need you to give me the room.

[00:12:26] To do something on the internet that is going to be incredible. and he was like, sure, no problem. So they go, they do a reshoot, they do all of this stuff and they make a one minute super bowl commercial. Meanwhile, we raced to build a website and we do this whole like production release of Terry Tate episodes.

[00:12:42] And we do this whole thing. And, immediately the commercial runs on the super bowl. I’ll never forget. I had my apartment filled with people from the advertising industry. I was so nervous, I was just like, oh my God, is this thing going to be funny? And it just killed.

[00:12:55] Right? So it absolutely kills. And then immediately, this was the [00:13:00] days where you would actually fire up a web browser, which actually showed you site visits.and just never in my life. Have I ever seen something where it would go from like 57. 680 14,000.

[00:13:14] just the, beyond exponential builds of something like that. And I’d realize, oh my God, we’re onto something here. people are going on logging on every day, watching it four times. we’re getting pictures of people just like saying, make, wait for the pain, train people, putting up signs in their offices about if you kill the Joe and make some Mo all of a sudden we realized that we’re like, you know, we have all this culture.

[00:13:38] And then the best part is it’s like, we’ve got three more videos. And so we just keep releasing these videos and keep releasing these videos. And the whole thing was amazing,

[00:13:45] It’s like, this was an idea that fell in our laps by a brilliant young director, I always just love that moment. I love the whole story. And again, apologies for the length of it just because there’s wonderful things that happen in the advertising industry that we should just [00:14:00] celebrate for the fact that we actually entertained people with advertise..

[00:14:04] And we gave people some value in exchange for their attention, and we should just be happy about that. And we should celebrate the fact that people were entertained and we created a new category of content of entertainment. And, we also kind of just raised the bar as to like, what brands should do, what brand should do.

[00:14:22] And so along the way, you had to be really brave to take a chance to do something.

[00:14:26] My favorite part though, is that every year at the super bowl, all the people who are involved in that production, there’s always that one email that goes around where, Terry Tate is ranked as like, is it still one of the top 10 super bowl commercials or something?

[00:14:38] So it’s like a reunion every year.

[00:14:39] Donny Dvorin: Yeah. I mean, let me ask you that came up with, soI was interviewing, Dunkin bird, at Fiverr. And we were talking about the, super bowl commercial that he made, and we had a whole discussion about why isn’t every commercial ad, Superbowl quality.

[00:14:55] Why are we only producing like that for the superbowl? Why do you think that is? [00:15:00] Why can’t it all always be that type of quality? Well,

[00:15:02] Chad Stoller: I think. no, I’m not going to claim to be an expert to, pick apart the anatomy of the super bowl commercial, but like super bowl commercials generally win with high price talent, right.

[00:15:12] Or high price production. And then the third part is you have to have a really strong idea. And so I think that we see lots of commercials out there that have wonderful ideas, but we have a lot of clients and a lot of brands out there who, you know,they question. the investment with a super bowl spot.

[00:15:28] I mean, who knows with however much they are. I lose track once I think they started hitting over 4 million, it was kind of tough for me just to keep track as to what a spot is. And so if you’re going to buy something at that level, people want to, make the investment in the production.

[00:15:42] But when you’re running TV or you’re running pre-roll, or you’re running something, that’s like a six second commercial people, don’t assign the same type of production value to it. Like, if you think about it, right? some of the best stuff that’s out there now, you know, is just stuff that also takes advantage of the environment that it’s in.

[00:15:57] if somebody can deliver a product message in six seconds [00:16:00] and it’s a compelling messages, like I look at that on a sentence. Well done.

[00:16:02] Donny Dvorin: Absolutely. And Looking at your bio. You have this line in there. It says you like to solve old challenges in new ways. What are some more recent examples of that?

[00:16:14] it’s a good question. And I’ll tell you, like, so the work that I’ve done with running the media lab at Interpublic, so I’ve run the media lab. 10 years and solving problems in new ways was really one of the strengths of the media lab when we were doing a lot more work in physical exploration and physical spaces.

[00:16:33] Chad Stoller: So for instance, one of the things that we used to do was. we worked a lot with various camera sensor technologies, as well as image recognition software to essentially create more efficiencies with media. we builtthis one platform, which I really loved, which was this, trailer.

[00:16:49] It was a concept, We never deployed it. But one of my favorite things about it was a walk-up kiosk. And, it had a still image of a movie poster and it would then change based on if it was a [00:17:00] male, looking at it, a female, looking at it or a child looking at it.

[00:17:03] And it was this way to make sure that the right trailer was being displayed to the right customer. And it was this idea and it kind of went nowhere because you need theaters to invest in it. And there’s a lot of legal stuff that goes involved with something along those lines, but it was just general idea where here’s a problem.

[00:17:19] but like in a movie theater, there’s only finite amount of real estate that is set up for posters. So what happens is, is that if you have a poster for an animated. That poster is only good until around four o’clock each day. So what happens after four o’clock when you have adults going into the movie theater, maybe that’s a good chance to throw in a poster for something else.

[00:17:39] Right. This is a very small tactic, but if you start thinking about the way that you have physical spaces and the way you had physical signage, there was no way to truly optimize those experiences to get those correct efficiencies. So that was like one thing that we did, we did other things where it was like, typically, we looked at a lot of research in terms of how can you measure the effectiveness of outdoor advertising?[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] And so we started looking at different ways to build proxy audiences with ads, or we did a lot of work with wifi in that way with looking at wifi signals. And so that was a lot of R and D work. I would say the areas where we have been effective in terms of bringing some of that stuff . to our clients.

[00:18:17] And also just as like real benefits back to inner public, and also the advertising ecosystem has been a lot of work that we did with attribution. And so, you know, we were some of the early pioneers of working with places. Which was really like one of the first ways where people can actually see are their digital campaigns actually driving foot traffic directly into various stores.

[00:18:36] And so I would say that helped definitely solve a problem that was out there, definitely it solved the problem, like does advertise at work. I think we can all agree that’s a problem that exists every day that we still have to go through those questions.

[00:18:47] But it was also one of these things for us, where we were able to basically say, we have a problem where we don’t know. how people move around, how people respond to advertising and so forth. So does this give us a better planning tool? And that’s when that’s what we did. We [00:19:00] also like placed was part of a series of investments that we led through the media lab at Interpublic because we’ve also invested in companies like Samba and I’m sure Samba is a company that you’re familiar with.

[00:19:10] And for us, we looked at Samba as this is going to be a possible new way to understand truly what a television rating is. So it’s one thing to look at ratings in a linear environment, but shouldn’t, we start looking at television in terms of like, what are people doing with their tellers? So by working with companies like Samba, we started to have more insights into, okay.

[00:19:29] What does television based behavior versus television based viewing? Because TV’s can be on for 10 hours a day, but if somebody is running a PlayStation on it for eight hours and Netflix on another two, that’s not a TV that’s watching. Right. So he was doing, another job. So we’re always looking as to like new ways to work with partners.

[00:19:46] Sometimes we look at partners and we looked at their core business and we basically say that core business is interesting, but we’re more interested in some of the side effects that you generate as a part of that business.

[00:19:57] Donny Dvorin: Our industry is changing very [00:20:00] rapidly and there’s everything from. Privacy concerns going on and the death of the third party cookie.

[00:20:05] And I’m not trying to lead the witness or anything, but what do you think is the most pressing challenge facing the industry right now?

[00:20:12] Chad Stoller: I think returning to context is when I first got into this business as a media planner, we were buying magazines based on interests of people, and we’d buy television shows based on like what are, the customers watch.

[00:20:22] And it was always data to support it, but it was this whole idea about context. And, I felt that media plans were a lot more. Right because it was like, you’re like, Hey, this is a great partner. And we’re going to execute with this partner in a very unique way.

[00:20:34] So I feel like there is a, struggle to balance this idea that, you can always have A data informed program that is working on, reaching customers, what’s going to happen now is like, when you look at deprecation third party, cookie, people, all of a sudden have to say, wait a sec.

[00:20:51] We might have to bring some creativity back into the way that we’re doing media planning. Again, we might have to do some creative thinking in terms of how we’re working with partners. Again, we might actually [00:21:00] have to start working with our partners as actual production partners again, and just start thinking about new ways that we can actually engage the consumer.

[00:21:09] I also think that, consumers are figuring things out. I think they know that their data is in play. I don’t think that they truly feel like they’re being tracked, like, some of the narrative that is out there. But I do think that if we continue to go the way that we are going, they will start believing that.

[00:21:23] And I feel like we have to go back to the value exchange in the advertising relationship, which is that I’m giving you something in exchange for your attention. And I think we need to be more fair on that.

[00:21:35] Donny Dvorin: And I mean really, , you can just put, it’s a brief for a second rally.

[00:21:38] That is the model of the whole, your attention deserves to be rewarded. And that’s why 70% of all the ad dollars that come in to brief go right into the consumer’s hands, via the basic attention token. And so that’s why people are making, you know, anywhere from five to $10 a month, when they see an ad.

[00:21:57] Because there’s a value to [00:22:00] someone’s attention.

[00:22:01]

[00:22:01] Chad Stoller: but do you believe as well that it’s one thing to have a transaction for somebody’s time, but isn’t it also our job to kind of somehow improve their life a little. You know, give somebody some information, give them some entertainment, give them something back, you know, like I still feel that, there’s so many partners out there and publishers and companies out there that have something to offer.

[00:22:26] And if an advertiser can come in and almost like underwrite those offerings and support those offerings, we can all make the publishing space better. we can make the product space better. We can make the platform space better. there’s nothing wrong with that. And I feel like sometimes, we raise to a world that is very precision.

[00:22:44] But sometimes that’s at the cost of leaving a valuable impression and that’s not meant to be upon on advertising.

[00:22:51] Donny Dvorin: Yeah, totally. And, in giving value back to the consumer can come in so many different ways. Like it could be in the form of making them laugh or making them cry, and [00:23:00] having an emotion, or it can be, a coupon right.

[00:23:02] And incentive where you’re giving back. And. Different types of advertising. I once learned this 20 years ago, which is, advertising is a reason to buy and promotion is a reason to buy now. And where you’re saying in the beginning is that we’re turning into an impulse area and everything is a reason to buy now.

[00:23:25] So is all advertising. Turning into promotional advertising it and maybe we’re moving in that

[00:23:32] Chad Stoller: direction. I mean, obviously it was just the, all of the acceleration of e-commerce and especially with the acceleration over the last three years is that there is this on demand economy, right?

[00:23:40] There’s people who just want things. They want things now they, expect things now like consumer expectations. Is something that I think is very, it’s complicated, right? Because it’s kind of like, we always have this pace of okay, we want to reach the right customer. Okay. but what we [00:24:00] don’t necessarily anticipate is that the customer expects it right away.

[00:24:04] And to me, that’s always one of the biggest threats of Amazon is that Amazon just continues to raise the bar. Right where it’s like, Hey, it’s two hours. Not good enough for you.

[00:24:12] It was kind of like, wait a second. If I want this thing, I can have this in two hours. That’s pretty good. Meanwhile, I can order a t-shirt from some like big retail clothing company and it’ll take eight days to get it. Like, that’s a big disconnect and those expectations make you challenge your perception of that brand and challenge your loyalty to that brand.

[00:24:31] Like I love that particular company. I love getting their t-shirts, but it’s like if they can’t get it to me if the spread now is two hours and eight days, I can find something that’s in the middle

[00:24:41] Donny Dvorin: And, I have to pay $8 for shipping on top of that, The $30 t-shirt is now $38.

[00:24:47] And after we read these, oh, and because I don’t remember my username and password, I have to continue as a guest and put in all my information all over again.

[00:24:56] now I get to do a search on honey, you know, and find the code. and [00:25:00] then the code doesn’t work because it was expired. Even though it had, 97% thumbs up. It just doesn’t work for me. Uh, my, one of the 3% it didn’t work for.

[00:25:09] Chad Stoller: Right, right, right. Exactly. Exactly. Whenever you see this code worked for like 2,800, you believe those?

[00:25:16] I don’t believe, I don’t believe them at all. I don’t believe that. Then I’m like, here I am on retail. Me not I’m like, what’s going on? What am I doing to maybe doing something else?

[00:25:29] Donny Dvorin: Exactly. Yeah. I shouldn’t ever be on the website retail. You’re not anyway. So, one last question for you is what is your hope for the advertising and marketing industry?

[00:25:41] Moving forward?

[00:25:43] Chad Stoller: I have a lot of hope. I would like to see creative and media work harder together.. And, my hope is that for both sides to recognize the need, to be better informed about each other’s activity. I really do. And I think what that means is I think I’d like to see the [00:26:00] creative side, better embrace data, better embrace the consumer journey and what works and what doesn’t work and to take the appropriate feedback.

[00:26:07] But then I’d like to see the media side better understand the. Message that is being formed by the creative side. Understand it a little bit more, have some sensitivity to it and design media that meets the message because I feel like when that doesn’t happen, that’s, when companies look like a company that has a brand agency or a creative agency in a media agency, versus when you see some of these, better integrated companies.

[00:26:32] That just seemed to seem to get it. You can tell a company’s culture when the media matches the creative, you Can always tell because a, that means that’s a company that agencies and creative services people or internal people they enjoy working for. They believe in that message and it’s just out there and it works.

[00:26:48] you could see it all the time. So I’d like to see that. And it’s hard work and it’s a commitment, but that’s where you need a brave CMO

[00:26:55] Donny Dvorin: Speaking of brave CMOs, can you nominate another brave marketer that we should have on the podcast?

[00:26:59] Chad Stoller: Kristen, [00:27:00] Maverick is a old colleague of mine.

[00:27:02] She works over at 360. and she’d be a wonderful person for you to

[00:27:05] Donny Dvorin: bring on.

[00:27:05] Chad Stoller: she’s terrific. She runs all their social strategy and she’s making brave decisions every day.

[00:27:10] Donny Dvorin: All right, Chad, anything, any final thoughts for the listeners?

[00:27:13] Chad Stoller: The subject of, the theme of all this is being brave. It’s like, you’re not going to change anything. I can do anything different unless you’re being brave. And, I think more people respect the behavior of somebody who is brave than somebody who’s just following the line..

[00:27:27] And, it’s also okay to do both, but you just also have to learn how to at least express your ideas and then people understand where you’re coming from, because then maybe that next time that idea will get through.

[00:27:37] Donny Dvorin: Well, Chad, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. And we’ll chat with you soon.

[00:27:42] Chad Stoller: Thanks again.

[00:27:44] Donny Dvorin: Hopefully you enjoyed that episode. I truly enjoyed hearing Chad’s story about Terry Tate and how Reebok had cut into the super bowl. But I also thought some interesting takeaways where this was this idea of the [00:28:00] impulse economy. The fact that people are making purchases on impulse all the time, and Amazon has made that so easy for us.

[00:28:08] But it’s more than just Amazon it’s happening across the web every day. And we also, talk about how creative and media needs to work together, you just get better advertising, better messaging. When you have a coherent company culture. that matches the media messaging and that’s when really magic happens within advertising.

[00:28:30] So if you liked what you heard today and found it valuable, it’d be super helpful. If you took two minutes to leave us a short review in apple podcasts, every review counts and helping [us get to our show and more ears. And on a final note, if you have a brand product or service that you’d like to get in front of Braves, 30 million users, please email us at adsales@brave.com.

[00:28:49] And let us know. You’re a podcast listener to unlock one of two perks. If your budget is under $10,000 a month, we will bump you to the top of our self-serve waiting list. [00:29:00] And if your budget is $10,000 or more, you qualify for a 25% podcast listener discount. Again, email us at ad sale. Brave.com and finally music credit goes to my brother Arielle.

[00:29:14] hopefully you enjoy this original music that he put together and we’ll see you next week on the brief marketer podcast. .