[00:00:00] Luke: From privacy concerns to limitless potential, AI is rapidly impacting our evolving society. In this new season of the Brave Technologist podcast, we’re demystifying artificial intelligence, challenging the status quo, and empowering everyday people to embrace the digital revolution. I’m your host, Luke Malks, VP of Business Operations at Brave Software, makers of the privacy respecting Brave browser and search engine, now powering AI with the Brave Search API.

[00:00:28] You’re listening to a new episode of the Brave Technologist. And this one features Cahill Camden, who is the founder of Echo Jockey and Press Jockey, two advanced AI powered platforms that help businesses quickly build brand awareness, secure media coverage, and unlock more guest podcasting opportunities.

[00:00:43] Having guided Coinberry and Blockchain Foundry from early stage investment to eight figure exits and working with multiple Web3 and technology companies over the past eight years, Cahill now works selectively with fast growing startups, helping them scale and increase their valuations. In this episode, we discussed why he thinks [00:01:00] podcasts are the number one medium to create, know, and like, and trust within your ideal client.

[00:01:04] And the most promising stats in the space, the impact on the creator economy and predictions for the future of content creation, along with tough decisions, creators will be forced to make when balancing privacy with growing need for AI driven data insights. Now for this week’s episode of the brave technologist.

[00:01:20] Cahill, welcome to The

[00:01:24] Brave Technologist. How are you doing today?

[00:01:26] Cahill: I’m good, Luke. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I know. I’ve really been looking forward to this. You know, don’t talk enough about creators at Brave, but we do have, you know, a big part of what we’re trying to do with our products, and it’s kind of find new ways to help.

[00:01:39] Not only support creators, but help kind of empower creators with tools. And that’s one of the reasons why I’m super excited to have you on today, because, you know, you’re doing some really interesting work in that field. Can you give us a little bit of background on like how you ended up doing what you’re doing with Echo Jockey and Press Jockey, and then we can drill down a little bit more into what specifically those platforms are doing.

[00:01:59] Yeah, right on. So [00:02:00] I started actually with my own agency. And so my agency was focused on really three different types of marketing, earned media, owned media, and paid media. So earned being, Hey, do you, can you get PR? Can you get podcast placements, et cetera? Owned media being, do you have a blog? Do you have a newsletter?

[00:02:17] What kind of content are you creating? Evergreen content on a content basis. And then paid media being obviously, you know, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, like all the paid channels. And so my agency was really focused on this. In the technology space, but almost exclusively in blockchain and web three.

[00:02:32] And so over the years, we’ve helped a number of clients go from seed to acquisition or getting acquired. And I built a team out around getting earned media specifically. So I had multiple people doing this on a manual basis, manually reaching out to, for press jockey, for example, Manually reaching out to journalists and reporters, manually following up, manually getting quotes and clients placed.

[00:02:55] And the same with podcasts, we would manually reach out to podcasts, manually try and find [00:03:00] different episodes to connect with. And it was just a lot of work. Yeah. That’s where this whole idea has, kind of come from is like, I’ve had this problem. I know what, what it’s like. And I want to create tools to really help our agency.

[00:03:12] Initially our agency to get really efficient. And then I was like, Hey, maybe I should just give this to the world.

[00:03:18] That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Let’s drill down into that a little bit. What exactly are you guys doing with Echo Jockey and Press Jockey? Just so the audience can learn a bit, a little bit more.

[00:03:28] So Echo Jockey is a tool for CEOs, founders, and leaders to get more guest podcasting. How do you go and find podcast to guest on? How do you pitch them? How do you start the conversation? How do you connect with those podcasters? Echo Jockey takes care of all of that. Press Jockey is more for traditional media.

[00:03:47] So if you’ve ever used Help a Reporter Help a Reporter Out, Quoted, Source Bottle, these are tools where thousands of journalists will post requests for expertise that they will then use [00:04:00] in their articles. And you may get a quote if you respond to them, or you can just pitch the journalist directly with something, with a tool like Scission.

[00:04:07] And so Press Jockey automates all of that. It looks at those tools. It finds you the best matches for your business. And then you also have a massive database of journalists, reporters, editors that you can reach out to and pitch your story. So it’s more for traditional media.

[00:04:23] Luke: Awesome. Just thinking back on even our own stuff here, like how much tedious work is involved with just, you know, even for a single person, outreach, follow ups, sourcing, fielding, drafting stuff, like all sorts of little things here.

[00:04:36] It sounds like you guys kind of created almost like a marketplace for connections to kind of happen and to kind of do that on your own with these tooling. It’s awesome because, you know, So much of the narrative around AI is around, Oh, it’s going to make a super powered engineering it’s going to be everywhere or whatever.

[00:04:50] But this is an actual case where startups or, you know people that have small teams can kind of leverage these tools and cut a lot of. Inefficiency [00:05:00] out of the process and get the objective of what you need to do to stay, to find that market fit, right? Like of getting out there and, and getting, there’s so much noise, right?

[00:05:08] Like getting out there is so important. Earned media is like so important. I can’t say that enough. And another thing people might wonder too, like is, and I’ve seen this thrown around quite a bit, like, Oh, everybody’s got a podcast or whatever, but why, why should somebody consider kind of being a thought leader on podcasts or in the media or kind of create their own?

[00:05:26] Does it, do you see impact for the business from your point of view?

[00:05:30] Cahill: I’d like a thousand percent. There’s impact positive impact on your business. So there’s a number of reasons. And like, we can go through a huge list, but let’s cut it down to the essentials. I think. As we see more content get published with AI, there’s going to be more of a need for personal brands and for human to human connection.

[00:05:47] So we can talk about that later, but I think that that’s one of the trends that is definitely coming. Okay, so why would you want to be on podcasts, for example, or why would you want to have, you know, Traditional media, you know, either one, what we’re all [00:06:00] trying to do, whether we have a product or a service, we’re trying to get people to know about us.

[00:06:04] We’re trying to get people to like us. We’re trying to get people to trust us that we have a solution for their problems. If you’re selling something, right, if you’re not selling anything, this probably doesn’t make as much sense to you, but if you’re selling anything, you want people to know, like, and trust you.

[00:06:18] All right. There is, at this current point in time, I would argue to say that there is no better opportunity than podcasts to get people to know, like, and trust you. So why do I say that? Podcasts you have anywhere from 30 minutes to let’s say an hour and a half to share your stories, your insights, your case studies, talk about your product, get people to understand who you are as a founder, CEO, or leader.

[00:06:42] Okay, there’s nothing else that does that if you were to transcribe that to an article, you’re talking like dozens of pages of text that no one’s going to read. So you get, this opportunity on top of that. your podcast is a growing trend, whereas traditional media is a declining trend. So even though we have products [00:07:00] in both, you know, we are seeing that, well, podcast growth is happening between about 5 10 percent per year.

[00:07:06] Over the, the lockdown years, it was a little higher. This is a growing trend that we’re, we’re seeing. So you probably want to be on a, on a growing trend. And on top of that, you also get to build trust almost right away with an audience. So you’re not just creating content in your studio or in your office or at home, hoping that when you post it on LinkedIn, Facebook, or whatever platform it is that you’re going to get an audience.

[00:07:32] No, no, you’re starting with an audience. And then you can use that content later. So really, those are, those would be the kind of primary factors of why you’d want to actually get going on podcasts.

[00:07:42] Luke: Yeah. And I think that, you know, in a really interesting vantage point where you’re seeing both the traditional side and the podcasting side and you’re servicing both too, right?

[00:07:51] So like, there’s like crossover potential, but I mean, like, It’s pretty indisputable to at this point. I mean, given even that to get into politics, but just looking at how [00:08:00] podcasts have impacted this political cycle, it’s almost like, you know, like back when, when Obama was running, it was really when you started to see Facebook and a lot of like new media hitting and affecting campaigns, but now it’s like.

[00:08:08] You’ve got these forums, the podcasts where you can have like real, like long form, and it’s not like an interview mode that you’re typically seeing with somebody, you know, coming at you with combative questions, but you see a different side of these people in this podcast format. And I think, you know, it’s really interesting because there’s this whole founder mode meme right now that’s floating around the site guys, right?

[00:08:29] I mean, like. Podcasts are pretty much a table stakes tool, right? Like in that founder’s mode toolkit, I would imagine, Given how the founder is kind of the face of the startup, I would imagine. Well, what would you, what would you think about that?

[00:08:40] Cahill: I totally agree with you. And so I think on that point, there’s a couple of things, right?

[00:08:43] One, you’re going to have to create content somehow. And one of the things that I often say is. Do you want to create content again in your office, in your studio, in your home, and then post it on social and hope that you’re going to get in front of an audience? Or do you want to start in front of an [00:09:00] audience?

[00:09:00] Get content, get video, get audio. Then transcribe that, cut it and post it on social and hope that you get even more of an audience reach. So that’s one. And then two, to your point about not to get into politics, but let’s call a spade a spade. Joe Rogan has more coverage and more views and listeners than all of the networks combined on either side of the aisle.

[00:09:24] So when you add up everything, ABC, NBC, CNN, Fox news, all of the channels, Joe Rogan has it. Way more than them, not like a little way more. And so that is very powerful. Now, of course, Joe Rogan’s, you know, the top podcaster in the world. That’s not to say that you’re not going to get tremendous benefit by being on smaller niche podcasts.

[00:09:45] Of course you will. I often say, like, imagine you can get in front of a room of 200 people, 500 people every week that were interested in your product, your service, your business, your software. Imagine you could get in front of 200 to 500 people. That’s a [00:10:00] huge number. You do that four times a month, you’re in front of a few thousand and then you use that content and repurpose it for social.

[00:10:05] That’s absolutely huge. So I do think that podcasts is going to continue to be a growing trend.

[00:10:10] Luke: Yeah, totally. And it’s just like this way to kind of be on demand and out there. And like, it’s a callback form of media too, where like something topical comes in the news and you can refer back to it too.

[00:10:20] Like I see it, like it’s amazing. Like we’ve advertised on podcasts and then we’ve seen certain guests go on podcasts and them mentioning us with the earned media side, just it’s greatly outperforms us, like having that, I don’t know. I feel like there’s like this real. Desire for authenticity, especially with startups and with companies.

[00:10:39] And there’s no better way to kind of show that than actually having the person in the room. And a lot of times who’s either early or there or founded the company or is driving the vision, right? Like there’s no better person to kind of tell the story. I feel like so often when we do these things, you end up getting.

[00:10:55] Feedback where it’s like, man, I didn’t even realize that was a part of what the company did.

[00:10:59] Cahill: [00:11:00] Yeah.

[00:11:00] Luke: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so cool. I mean, what are some trends you’re seeing in AI generated content business owners should pay attention to? I know we’re talking, you know, podcast and kind of the press impact, but is there anything else that you’re seeing that people should be noting?

[00:11:13] Cahill: Yeah. So I think first things, just one, one interesting stat about podcasts and traditional media. One of the things that I think is important to recognize or remember is that 85 percent approximately 87 percent some, some, a number around there of people who listen to podcasts, trust what they’re hearing on the podcast, because obviously the podcast host has done some form of vetting.

[00:11:37] They’ve done some form of research and they’ve brought on a specific guest for a reason. So if you can be that guest, you are already in the good books. You’re already in that zone of having people trust you. Whereas on traditional media, last time I checked, which is, you know, a stat that was pulled from 2020, 60 percent of people do not trust [00:12:00] traditional media.

[00:12:01] That is a huge difference. It’s huge. Like, an absolutely huge difference. That seems

[00:12:05] Luke: conservative now. Right, exactly. I mean, like, yeah, like, four years later, right? Like, I, it’s like, I’ve never seen anything like this before with people. Yeah. I mean, like, why do you think that is? I mean, like, not to get too personal, but that’s why you’re here, right?

[00:12:18] Like, you know, what do you think is causing that?

[00:12:21] Cahill: I think it’s, we’re finally at a place where the internet and where, you know, transparency and where influencers people who are insightful about media are exposing the planned nature behind media on any side. Again, this is not to be political left or right on any side there’s typically an agenda and that agenda typically goes with. Where the money comes from, and if the money comes from specific places, you’re typically going to have specific questions, segments. You know, answers, hosts, guests, the whole nine yards that talk about a specific thing or in a specific direction, whereas [00:13:00] podcasts, YouTube shows, regular conversations between two people.

[00:13:03] It’s much more of a conversation that is free flowing and can go in multiple directions. And I feel like that has shifted things now to your question before. About AI, I think we’re seeing a trend right now where AI is going to really amplify the amount of content that is created. Like if you thought there’s a lot of content now, give it a year or two and you’re going to see a ridiculous amount of content being published by AI bots.

[00:13:30] And so we’re talking faceless YouTube channels. We’re talking even podcasts that are likely going to be run by AIs talking to AIs. Will the information be insightful? Interesting? Entertaining, maybe, and so then you’re going to have to make that decision on whether you want to, you know, follow an AI content creator, an AI bot, an AI influencer, an AI podcast host, or whether you don’t, and I think we’re going to see that and that that’s going to become harder to distinguish as AI gets better and better.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] So that’s, that’s kind of one of the trends that I

[00:14:02] Luke: think both of these things two questions kind of dovetail together too. Right. Because like, as more of more media gets output to broader, broader audiences and more often, right. Like things that didn’t seem so obvious before become obvious.

[00:14:17] you were in a, at an agency, like there are run books for having a PR plan, right. Like in a, in a go to market. Right. Like, and it’s like, we had

[00:14:25] Cahill: all of them. Yeah,

[00:14:25] Luke: all the formulaic mechanics of it become so out there and in your face when you’re seeing content from every kind of side of the spectrum.

[00:14:34] And I feel like a similar thing probably will happen with AI. I’m already seeing it like on Twitter where you’re like, you start to see some replies and you’re like, ah, that’s an AI reply. it’s better than what it used to be, but it’s still like you see enough of it and it just kind of smells weird.

[00:14:46] Right. Like, it’s super interesting time. It just seems like there’s always going to be kind of like a human driving something to keep it authentic or, or put themselves out there. That’s really interesting. I mean, like, like how do you see this impacting creators, you know, individually, do you think that [00:15:00] this will require more effort on their part to kind of put themselves out there or where do you see this going for the individual creator?

[00:15:07] Cahill: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that there’s going to be kind of two or three tracks of, of what will happen. One is we’re going to see a segment of the market. And I would think a significant portion of the market who wants to have human to human connection, they want to hear from other humans.

[00:15:21] They want to see other humans. So that’s going to happen. Then you’re going to have creators who kind of augment their content creation with AI and use AI to maybe increase the amount that they produce or increase, increase the production quality. Like we’re already seeing that with some YouTube channels where if you were looking for B roll footage.

[00:15:41] And you were paying some of these platforms, you know, like stock photos to get B roll footage. Now you can just ask AI to do it and it will come up with the thing that you want. Of course it’s animated, but it’s pretty well animated and it changes the nature of video. So that’s, two. And then three, we’re going to see a segment of the market who they just don’t care if it’s a human or an AI, as long as [00:16:00] the content is interesting, entertaining and good.

[00:16:03] Sure. I’ll listen to it. And I think that’s where we’ll see the market split for content creators. My personal feeling, maybe because I’m a little old school is human human connection is going to be absolutely huge. Sure. You’ll be able to make money from just having your own AI bots if that’s the direction you want to go.

[00:16:18] But I do think human to human connection is going to be increasingly more important, especially for business owners, as we progress forward over the next five years.

[00:16:27] Luke: Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. I think that that’s kind of the silver lining of all this is, you know, it actually probably, like, knowing that something’s real, we’ll have a higher value in a market that becomes more and more saturated with artificial content and tools, but also, like, you know, just.

[00:16:42] The ability to run through stuff, even timestamp things, like stuff that just, like, used to take a long time to manually do. It’s just so nice to have these tools around in any capacity. That’s what just kind of is really surprising about a lot of people that have the knee jerk reactions to things, is that there’s like, Damn, like, this is actually, like, in some context, [00:17:00] super useful, even if you don’t like it.

[00:17:01] Yeah. Let’s kind of dive into the tooling side a little bit more. I mean, like you told us a little bit about Echo Jockey earlier. Do you have any early success stories or are there any ways that people are using what you’re doing that you’re seeing kind of the fine fit? and how long has, has Echo Jockey been out there?

[00:17:16] Cahill: Yeah, absolutely. Good. Great question. So we, yeah, I’ve got a ton of case studies. I have many, many, many of them, but I think ones that are most relevant. Let’s let’s see. So we had one customer who he gave the tool to his virtual assistant and she Echo jockey for 30, 40 minutes a day to reach out to podcasts.

[00:17:34] Now you got to remember echo jockey for those who have not seen it or who are listening just on audio only, you’ve got your search ability. So we have millions of database, millions of podcasts in the database, hundreds of millions of episodes. So you’ve got your search capability, but then you also have the ability to have generative pitches, which are custom based.

[00:17:53] On your profile and based on the podcast or episode that you’re pitching. So you can literally click a button and it will generate [00:18:00] very well written pitch that you might have to edit a tiny bit, but you don’t always. So nice. He gave this to his VA. She started sending out messages 30, 40 minutes a day.

[00:18:08] And in the last six months, he’s booked. Over 42 podcasts, which is almost two podcasts a week. And that has resulted in tens of thousands of views on his profile. His LinkedIn has spiked. He’s gotten business opportunities. He’s made sales from this. He’s started to transition into a thought leader in this space.

[00:18:27] He’s a fractional CMO and he’s, he’s just crushing it. I’ve got another client who. He did this, got on a podcast, pushed it out on social with a bit of, with a bit of a, you know, on LinkedIn, a bit of social and he got 1500 views, which resulted in 10 qualified leads coming through on one podcast. And so that’s, that’s huge.

[00:18:49] There’s another customer who they had an agency. Their marketing agency never offered anything like podcast outreach before because they’re able to leverage the tool and the [00:19:00] automations and the AI, they can quickly use it to offer this for their clients. They added an entire new revenue stream at 1, 500 to 2, 000 a month per client.

[00:19:11] Using the tool to get them on, you know, anywhere from three to six podcasts a month. So, you know, these huge, like absolutely huge. Like, and I know from the agency side, because I had an agency, if you were going to do that for clients, you would hire someone either part time contractor or full time you’d be doing dozens of hours of outreach.

[00:19:30] Yes, you can make a profit from it, but it’s just way, way, way more work. And now all of a sudden, you know, this, this customer can use a tool, augment what they’re doing and drastically increase the results that they’re getting for clients. I

[00:19:45] Luke: mean, especially like in times right now where you’re seeing like a lot of cost cutting and unfortunately, like you see, like a lot of marketing departments get hit really hard in these areas.

[00:19:55] You’ve got a lot of people that are still at orgs that are like, how do I do more [00:20:00] with less? And having these capabilities is just huge, but even more fundamentally, like there’s just the battle of the blank page, right? Like, especially when you’re writing about yourself, right? Like, you’re just a total solve for that, which is super cool.

[00:20:13] I can’t wait to take a look at this a little more closely. It’s like from our side to like, yeah, it’s like,

[00:20:17] Cahill: thank you. And it’s like anyone who has like thought, Oh man, like, how am I going to write pitches? I don’t know what to say. I don’t have a good bio. You know, all of these resistance points that maybe stops you from really sharing your knowledge and your insight with targeted audience members, potential clients, potential customers who could actually use your help.

[00:20:41] And because maybe you don’t know how to do it, you block yourself and you block, you block your clients or potential clients from learning about you. Because you don’t know how to write a bio. You don’t know how to write a pitch. You don’t know how to do this. And now all of a sudden the AI will do 95 percent of the work for you.

[00:20:58] And it’s tuned by [00:21:00] us. We’ve spent dozens of hours tuning it from our agency life with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pitches. And so like the pitches are pretty darn good and you don’t have to really worry about it. You can go in and tweak it and tune it if you want. And you can make it even better, or you can, you can make it even more your own.

[00:21:19] So that’s always up to you.

[00:21:20] Luke: Right. That’s what’s so cool about it. It’s like, you know, you’re cooking with the ingredients that are from your own creation, right? Like you’re, you’re, you, it sounds like it’s just looking at what you’ve already put out there and building based off of those ingredients. And then it, you know, gives you follow an opportunity to tune it even more.

[00:21:37] Like, I think I might be beating a dead horse with talking about it in this way, but I think these are the cases where. AI is super useful because people, if you look at the progression, right? Like of how I personally did this. Cause like a lot of what I was coming up was like self taught from learning stuff online or, and just practically applying it.

[00:21:56] We’re in this phase where like, this is even like a bigger [00:22:00] jumpstart to learning new things. This is an area that’s like, so key to a startup, right? Like, how do you get yourself out there? You know, you have something good. You’re putting your life into it. And you need more people to know about it. And this is just, it seems like an awesome way to kind of get it out there.

[00:22:15] And I know I’m, I’m talking you up a lot, but I think this is just super cool because like, we talked to a lot of people like from the broader academic in, in, in different areas in the AI space. But like, it’s always this question of like, what are the actual practical uses for this right now, timing wise and like need wise and, you know, all these different practical things come up with what you guys are doing that I think will help I mean, we have 1.

[00:22:38] 7 million content creators that have verified with us. And I imagine like a good chunk of them have a need to get themselves out there a little bit more among the noise. So, so these tools sound like they’re super interesting for them to check out.

[00:22:51] Cahill: Yeah. Thanks Luke. And you know, just to add to that point.

[00:22:54] Again, you’re going to be creating content anyways. Like it’s not, it’s not like, Oh, I’m going to be on [00:23:00] podcasts where I’m going to be doing nothing. No, no. Right. You’re going to be creating content regardless. And so why not create content in front of an audience, get the video, get the audio and then do your thing and cut it, transcribe it into a blog post, transcribe it into a medium post, sub stack newsletter.

[00:23:16] You can go down the road and. There’s tons of things with this content, but like create it in front of an audience first. And here’s the other thing, when you’re creating it in front of an audience on a podcast, Whether it’s recorded on audio or video, you’re naturally speaking. So you don’t have to think as much about, Hmm, how am I going to write this transition between 2 or, Hmm, what’s my hook going to be?

[00:23:43] It’s a natural conversation. You’re going to get a lot of content and then you can start going in. And if you make blog posts or sub stacks or whatever, you can go in and do that later, but you get all this content. And so it’s, I think it’s for content creators. I think it’s huge.

[00:23:57] Luke: That’s awesome. How do you see [00:24:00] automation impacting other, other lines of business like outside of podcasting?

[00:24:04] Do you see continuous automation and things like that? Or where do you see things going?

[00:24:09] Cahill: Yeah, I do think we’re moving into a time where if it can be automated, it will be automated. Then the question becomes, okay, how good is the quality going to be? And that’s a different story. I do think as we progress forward with any business, with any startup, with any enterprise, there’s going to be a lot more automation and data is going to be the, the, the key of it.

[00:24:29] It’s going to be the core of it. I think we will see a lot more quality improvements as time goes on. Like again, we’re two years into the public version of this. Of course, GPT has been, you know, opening and chat GPT has been around for, you know, five, six, seven years. So if you had early access, okay, you, you’ve been playing with this for a while, but the public access two years.

[00:24:51] And then look at the ecosystem of companies that are created around generative AI, around AI, you know, data around all [00:25:00] sorts of things. This is just two years. Give it another three, four, five years. It’s going, the quality is going to be outstanding. And so I, I do think that’s kind of one of, one of the trends that we’re seeing.

[00:25:11] Luke: And you mentioned data too. Any thoughts around privacy with creators and all this AI driven data insights and things like that? Or are you guys just working with public information or like, you know, how much are you thinking about that, the privacy side of things?

[00:25:26] Cahill: So I think about it quite a lot. I’ve worked with a number, if we go back to agency days and some of the fractional CMO work I’ve done, I’ve worked with some privacy protocols.

[00:25:36] I’m a big believer in privacy. I think it’s, I think it’s a human right. And I think we all need to have privacy in our lives, including financial privacy to be able to really live the lives that we want. So I’m a big, big believer in that. And, you know, I love the stuff that Brave has been doing with privacy and I’m a big believer in that.

[00:25:56] Here’s the challenge. We’re at a place right now with [00:26:00] companies like open AI or other big data companies where they’re, they’re pulling in as much data as they can get. Your data is going to be part of that. The question for a creator is now, well, do you want to willingly give that data over to have more convenience and speed, or do you want to take more time, energy and effort to build your own type of private enterprise?

[00:26:23] Let’s call it LLM, large language model, or your own private agent that you control the data on. And I think that that kind of toss up or discussion is going to really be an internal thing for, for each content creator. Again, my hope is always that we lean more towards privacy because I’m a big believer in it.

[00:26:44] But from what I see in the world and what, from what I see over the last five, six years, 10 years, that’s just not what people want. And it’s, you know, once you go down that path, it’s a little, little hard to reverse.

[00:26:58] Luke: That notion of kind of having your [00:27:00] own, your own LLM, it seems like also kind of an opportunity within the industry for a challenger to come in and really, or challengers to come in and really kind of put a solution out that, that allows them to do that.

[00:27:12] Because it seems pretty empowering, like, and there’s gotta be some balance in between the two, I would imagine, just if you look at even social, right? Like where, okay, I publicly post stuff on social all the time, but like my DMs on Twitter aren’t public, right? Like things like that. That could be really empowering, like, I think, for creators too, I would imagine.

[00:27:30] Cahill: But here’s the thing, Luke, I don’t know, I don’t know if your DMs are actually private. You know, you need to look at the terms of service with X or with Facebook. Oh, sorry, Meta or with, you know, with WhatsApp, you know, like Meta owns WhatsApp and Zuck is like, that guy’s one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our generation.

[00:27:53] I’m willing to bet some money that your messages on WhatsApp are not private. They’re not yours. They’re right. Right. And so [00:28:00] like, yeah, you know, like lots of nuance. Yeah, there’s lots of nuance. And then it’s like, okay, if I want to create my own LM, what I’ve got to learn about this, I’ve got to go down this path to your point.

[00:28:09] I think that’s a great idea for, you know, a company. Maybe we’ll build it one day. A company to say, Hey, you can quickly spark up your own LLM and this is yours to yours to own yours to create. You maybe pay a fee to like get that set up. That’s a super cool idea. How much adoption will it have and do content creators really care?

[00:28:27] I don’t know. I really don’t know.

[00:28:29] Luke: You know, it’s a great point. So much of this is like carts and horses and like kind of communicating what that value is, the whole word salad exercise in itself, but just from a technology perspective, Tam, that would be super cool, you know,

[00:28:42] Cahill: going

[00:28:44] Luke: a step further to, I mean, you’re, you’re digital nomad, kind of global entrepreneur, like, How much are you looking at regulatory challenges or are you even seeing regulatory challenges with the AI space?

[00:28:56] I mean, I know you’ve got a crypto background too, and there’s no way of avoiding it [00:29:00] there. But I mean, you know, that also gives you a unique point of view on this. Like when you’re looking at AI too, like how much are you seeing this impacting what you’re doing? How much are you thinking it’ll impact things over the next couple of years?

[00:29:13] Cahill: Yeah. Great question. So I think if we’re going to relate it to crypto and web three, you’re right. I have seen it. Like, so our agency was the first agency to get a number of crypto clients regulated to advertise in Canada.

[00:29:24] Luke: Oh, wow. Yeah.

[00:29:25] Cahill: So we, we had to work with Google and Meta to actually make that happen.

[00:29:29] And you know, there’s a bunch of hurdles you have to jump through, et cetera. Sounds

[00:29:32] Luke: like pain.

[00:29:33] Cahill: It wasn’t, it wasn’t easy. Let’s just put it that way for those who remember the, you know, you know, if you’ve been in the web three crypto space since. You know, more of the early days. So if you’ve remember, if you remember two cycles or three cycles ago in 20, let’s call it 18 to 2021, the wild wild west, it’s still the wild west, but maybe now it’s the wild west.

[00:29:55] And back then it was the wild, wild west that you could do anything. And it was absolutely [00:30:00] nuts. I think we’re there with AI right now. There is no regulation around AI. And it’s the wild west. You have companies like open AI, basically swiping the Scarlett Johansson’s voice and using it and saying, yeah, sue us, like, go ahead and we’ll pay a little bit of money, but it’s worth it for us.

[00:30:18] And so it’s like really the wild west and Hey, yeah, we’ll, we’ll partner up with Apple and we’ll siphon in all of your data. Like, okay, there’s no regulation around it. I think that will change. I hope that will change. I think that will change. I’m not sure which one, but I do see a real kind of danger with very intelligent AI systems coming out in the next three to five years.

[00:30:43] And I don’t know if we will have regulation to stop that, help that. I don’t know if other countries will go that route, which means, okay, if you’re a startup playing with this, you just Put your servers in your company in another country. Like, I don’t, I don’t know what that future looks like. I’m of two minds.

[00:30:58] One, I hope that [00:31:00] there is some type of safety regulation with artificial general intelligence as it, as it fast approaches and as everyone’s trying to race towards that. But at the same time, it’s nice to be in the wild west. If you’ve got like a gun on your hip and you’ve got a good horse and like you, you can make quick moves, you’ll be all right.

[00:31:16] And so I think just keeping that in mind, it’s like, if you want to get into it and use it. Now’s a great opportunity to be early just like crypto and down the road. Yeah, there may be regulations in specific countries that might hold you back.

[00:31:30] Luke: Yeah, no, that’s fascinating. Was there anything we didn’t cover that you want our audience to know about?

[00:31:36] Cahill: I think we’ve covered a lot, you know, like I just think if you’re, if you’re a content creator, if you’re looking, if you’re a B2B business owner and you want to build your thought leadership, you want to start building a personal brand, you want to get in front of an audience, Definitely check out Echo Jockey and definitely check out Press Jockey if you’re still interested in the traditional media side.

[00:31:55] Like both tools I built because I was having that problem. [00:32:00] And so I wanted to help other people because I really do think we need more great businesses to really be in the spotlight. And just because you don’t have the budget for a big agency, or just because you can’t afford to pay for, you know, a massive placement at the Superbowl or something doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be in the spotlight.

[00:32:18] You absolutely should. And so you’ve now got tools that we built to help you do that and help make that happen. So go out there, get your message out and, and start to change the world.

[00:32:29] Luke: I love it, man. I love it. What a great message to end on too. Where can people find you?

[00:32:33] Cahill: Yeah. So I’m going to do real big push on LinkedIn.

[00:32:36] So you can follow me on LinkedIn. I’m also going to be starting to publish a lot more on X. I’ve been in the crypto world. I was pretty quiet just because I wanted to, I’ve seen some things go down. With some connections, like actually, so I’ve been pretty quiet in the crypto world, but you can follow me on X at Cahill Camden and also on LinkedIn.

[00:32:55] Cahill Camden is my name. So he searched me, add me and I will be posting on both [00:33:00] platforms a lot more.

[00:33:01] Luke: I love it, man. Thank you again for your time and love to have you back to, to check back in on things and get more insight from you as things go forward too.

[00:33:08] Cahill: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I’m happy to do a second session and Luke.

[00:33:12] Luke: Likewise, man, likewise. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the Brave Technologist podcast. To never miss an episode, make sure you hit follow in your podcast app. If you haven’t already made the switch to the Brave browser, you can download it for free today at brave. com and start using Brave Search, which enables you to search the web privately.

[00:33:30] Brave also shields you from the ads, trackers, and other creepy stuff following you across the web.