[00:00:00] Luke: From privacy concerns to limitless potential, AI is rapidly impacting our evolving society. In this new season of the Brave Technologist podcast, we’re demystifying artificial intelligence, challenging the status quo, and empowering everyday people to embrace the digital revolution. I’m your host Luke Malks, VP of Business Operations at Brave Software.

[00:00:21] Makers of the privacy respecting Brave browser and search engine. Now powering AI with the Brave Search API. You’re listening to a new episode of the Brave Technologist, and this one features Steve Kinnard, who is the president of AI Innovation Association. Previously, he served as a director of policy and director of Bitcoin mining at the Texas Blockchain Council, an industry association dedicated to making Texas a leader in Bitcoin innovation.

[00:00:45] He was actively involved in legislative advocacy regarding technology policy and opposing onerous regulation and federal government overreach. In this episode, we discussed how Texas is positioning itself as a leader in AI innovation, ways that the AI [00:01:00] is impacting the energy sector, what areas the AI Innovation Association is going to focus on, Why First Principles on Open Source Technology and Ethos is critical to the AI Innovation Association and the AI sector in general and how the AI Innovation Association is going to help innovate and educate businesses that are in this emerging AI space.

[00:01:20] Now, for this week’s episode of the Brave Technologist. Steve, welcome to the Brave Technologist podcast. How are you doing today? Thanks for having me on, Luke. Doing great. I’m glad to be here. Awesome. How did you find yourself kind of getting into the blockchain and AI technology space? Sure. I think, look, it’s

[00:01:41] Steve: fair to say I didn’t take a typical path.

[00:01:44] I don’t know what a typical path looks like, but certainly mine is, is not that by background, I’m an energy professional. I was an entrepreneur in the oil and gas industry here in Texas. Was living in Houston, was part of starting an operating company in [00:02:00] the oil field. There after about five years, we built that up to pretty sizable and sold most of that off.

[00:02:06] And then as part of that kind of transition, I was fortunate to get a great offer on the banking side of things. So I kind of went from operating company and oil and gas to banking and, and that moved me up to Dallas. And to be honest, that’s kind of what I thought I was going to do. I was enjoying it. It was interesting work.

[00:02:23] It was really a dynamic industry. And like so many people, a lot changed when COVID hit, everyone had more time on your hands and you’re kind of going down various and sundry rabbit holes. And so I found myself. And I don’t honestly know when, how, and where I somehow came across the concept of Bitcoin mining in the oil field.

[00:02:46] And I didn’t know the first thing about Bitcoin, but what I did know from my prior experience is that there is a lot of energy. Particularly natural gas and oil focused production [00:03:00] operations that is completely lost. it’s just burned off because it’s in a remote area and there’s no gas pipeline.

[00:03:08] And most people find that to be shocking. If you go across West Texas, you’ll see many, many, they’re called flares, which are locations where there’s natural gas that cannot get to market. And it’s much more environmentally sensible to at least combust it, burn it off, Rather than vent it. Nobody wants to just vent it to the atmosphere.

[00:03:28] So it’s burned off through a flare and that resources is lost. And no one wants that. Nobody wants waste. And in addition to that, most companies are driven by producing more revenue. So you would rather sell just from a purely economic standpoint, you would rather sell that gas for some non zero. Amount when I heard about a technology that could go to the energy source and monetize that I said, well, I don’t really know anything about Bitcoin, but if you can do that, then I’m very interested.

[00:03:58] And so I was [00:04:00] spending, you know, nights and days reading about that and kind of. Going through a due diligence process and so long story short I went from bitcoin skeptic to kind of bitcoin evangelist if I can put it that way and through that process I started to familiarize myself with bitcoin as a protocol as a technology and really found myself aligned philosophically with it I think.

[00:04:23] And the digitally native economy that we’re living in, having a decentralized, digitally native asset is important. If you think that private property is important to human flourishing, which I certainly do. And I would hope most people listening would agree with that. And so I just thought going down the path of understanding, you know, is, Bitcoin part of that solution was compelling to me.

[00:04:45] And at that same time, a guy by the name of Lee Bratcher had founded the Texas blockchain council. And as it turns out, Lee and I live about a mile apart from each other, just completely by coincidence. Yeah. And we, and we got along really well and we’re similar ages and we got [00:05:00] similar age kids and all that kind of stuff.

[00:05:02] One thing led to another. And I said, look, I feel compelled to kind of leave the comfortable corporate banking job that I had, which I liked, but I found my heart was more and more in working and promoting greater decentralization and financial services and an energy. And that’s what I saw in the Texas Blockchain Council.

[00:05:22] We launched an initiative there to work on all kinds of advocacy for digital assets and for the various different protocols that are providing innovative. Solutions to different issues within a digitally native economy. And that really just captured my imagination. So I was fortunate through that to do a lot of work on the energy grid here in Texas, because a lot of these Bitcoin mining facilities are being built in, in Texas on our grid.

[00:05:51] And, and there’s a great misconception that they’re, you know, energy hogs, and they’re going to make the lights go off and make energy prices go up. And [00:06:00] the reality is, is completely the opposite. Bitcoin miners have really been at the kind of tip of the spear and innovating an entirely new kind of, of citizen on the grid.

[00:06:14] We talk a lot about grid citizenship, and if you think about this, you know, most of us, we take it as a given, you flip the lights on, the lights just come on, they’re on all the time. And your fridges. Running all the time, right? You don’t, you’re not interested in turning it off at certain hours. That’s typical for an individual person.

[00:06:34] It’s typical of most businesses, but as we’ve seen the market evolve, there’s great utility in the ability for certain customers that are called loads on a grid to be flexible and respond to market scenarios, particularly in the state of Texas, it’s no mystery. It gets hot here. And when it gets up to a hundred and four degrees, everyone’s cranking their AC, [00:07:00] you’re at this huge demand peak with the generation resources, trying to meet that.

[00:07:05] And so we want all of the generation working to keep the lights on for, Retail people, people like me for the hospitals, for the schools, everyone agrees on that, but the big question is what are all those generation resources doing the rest of the year when it’s not 104 degrees and that’s where having these flexible loads are really a great benefit and so that, really.

[00:07:28] Was very appealing to me and so that was a blessing to go to be able to advocate for that learn about it be involved in the political process around it and ultimately. That’s where we started to see more of an artificial intelligence kind of angle in our work because we had a number of companies that at the end of the day a bitcoin mining facility is just a data center what we advocate for is innovation in the data center.

[00:07:55] Industry you know bitcoin miners have been a leader in that but i often encourage people to think of it as [00:08:00] more of a data center and so naturally a lot of these companies have started to look at diversifying into a i compute type of loads, which have traditionally been firm and data centers running twenty four seven three sixty five so i think There’s a huge area of potential innovation for different AI loads to be incorporated into this flexible kind of grid marketplace that makes the grid more resilient for. For everybody that really excited me.

[00:08:29] Luke: Yeah. If you think about how they train models, right? Like it’s kind of a perfect scenario for getting really solid AI innovation, because you have just like seasonality, you have usage patterns, you have movements of life that are pretty they’re not a hundred percent the same every day, but pretty darn consistent.

[00:08:47] system. People are pretty, you know, habitual creatures, right? What’s super interesting to me about your story and one of the reasons why I was really excited to have you on is that there’s a lot of noise in both the crypto and the [00:09:00] AI space. Hearing your story has been really awesome because you’re in Texas, you’re in the United States.

[00:09:05] The hotbed issues around this tend to be, you know, environmental. Concern and also like, Oh, the consumer safety with crypto, right? Your whole path on this is basically having, seeing a need in the market, both on like, you know, if you’re thinking about flaring in kind of these wrinkles that are appearing with natural gas, which is a step in arguably the right direction towards, you know, cleaner energy sourcing, and then also like with what’s been happening with Bitcoin, I mean, like, it’s so funny because it’s gnarly as COVID was.

[00:09:35] With everything, I mean, we saw, I’m in California, like a lot of my friends moved to Texas and, um, you, you saw this kind of exodus, right? But it was at this time too, when pick one started getting a lot more attention. And what’s beautiful to me about it is that like going from seeing Bitcoin start to like seeing you actually like filling a need as an entrepreneur that is addressing both of these issues.

[00:09:55] firsthand, right? Like if there’s, you know, ways to make positive Bitcoin mining [00:10:00] business lines in this country, also with this pairings, you know, environmental thing, and now we’re seeing it kind of line up into this AI angle as well. Like Texas is really pioneering, you know, to play on words a bit, like a lot of it, you have that kind of freedom to, to really drive a lot of this new industry and innovation, and it’s really awesome to hear.

[00:10:19] And, um, yeah, it’s cool to see that. I mean, especially cause it wasn’t like you’re like. Oh, I was in 2013, you know, reading the white paper and, you know, had my first mining rig or whatever. This is like, no, man, I was doing this whole other thing. And now I’ve found this really interesting and innovative path that you’re on.

[00:10:35] To build on that a little bit with the Texas Blockchain Council and with this new, the AI Innovation Association that you’re starting, what are a lot of the issues that you guys are going up against? Maybe we can give the folks a little bit of background on what are the issues that you all are focusing on primarily kind of with the blockchain association.

[00:10:52] And then also we can go into the AI side.

[00:10:55] Steve: Sure. So AI innovation association, which I am the president of [00:11:00] was really born out of Texas blockchain council. We will continue to. You know, to work together. So while this is a new kind of venture for me, it’s very much aligned and growing out of Texas blockchain council.

[00:11:13] And it was members from Texas blockchain council that really encouraged us to do this. And the reason is that what distinguished the work of the Texas blockchain council was a real commitment. To decentralization to private property rights, to private markets, to the entrepreneurial spirit and kind of fearlessly advocating for that in the public square while also fulfilling the role of a typical association, which is the primary role, which is to create an opportunity for networking and for companies to highlight their products.

[00:11:48] And you got to do that and that’s great. Most associations, however. Are very kind of mild and at the margins when it comes to advocating for the interests of their [00:12:00] members. And what happened with the Texas blockchain council is that the Bitcoin mining industry in the past two years came under a really unique.

[00:12:10] And ferocious frankly attack and really completely misguided persecution just based on lies and while in the earlier chapters of that you know our desire was to remain completely non confrontational if you can avoid it that’s always preferable sure and to rely on you know educating legislators and regulators and pursuing that kind of path but.

[00:12:36] What became really undeniable was that there’s a large contingent particularly in the federal government that they’re not interested in learning or education or appreciating the innovation that’s going on in the digital asset marketplace there’s a mentality of kind of. Doomerism is the only way I can describe it against any kind of innovation.

[00:12:58] And it finds [00:13:00] it’s, it kind of rears, it’s ugly heads and a lot of different areas. And I think AI is experiencing that as well. I would say in the past 10 years, I don’t think any industry has been the target of that kind of wrath quite as much as the Bitcoin mining industry. When the reality of the situation is completely the opposite of the threats.

[00:13:21] There are that Bitcoin mining is terrible for the environment and it’s destroying our grids. And it’s, it’s all a plot to with like nefarious intentions. And the reality is these are American based companies, American entrepreneurs, creating jobs in rural. Communities investing in grid resiliency that nobody’s hiding.

[00:13:40] take people on tours all the time and then you see people, you know, threatening and it’s like, have you ever been to one of these? Oh no. You know, they, they can’t take the time to come down and even do the most basic. Kind of due diligence and so all of that is to say it reached a kind of a fever pitch with elizabeth [00:14:00] warren is kind of the ringleader of these fanatics it’s come to light sense that you know she was a primary force behind having the energy information administration pursue a completely bizarre.

[00:14:15] And unconstitutional initiative to force all bitcoin miners to disclose all kinds of proprietary information and the basis for this in theory was that one of the snowstorms we had back in december january was an emergency. And that the bitcoin miners were causing this emergency or were somehow part of this and.

[00:14:39] As you may know and some of your listeners may know you know the the hash rate. Within the Bitcoin network is a publicly visible thing. I mean, everybody contributes their hash rate from anywhere. It’s it’s open, right? And you can see it as it goes up and it goes down. And so what was interesting about all of this was that [00:15:00] during those days There’s a very large amount of hash rate in the state of texas and you can see very clearly there for yourself That while that storm was going on the hash rate was offline.

[00:15:10] In other words You The Bitcoin miners weren’t running their data center, so it’s completely impossible for them to contribute to any purported emergency. And despite that very obvious fact, the Energy Information Administration wanted to pursue with this survey that they were forcing that, by the way, no other data centers have submitted to.

[00:15:33] So, you know, our position was this isn’t about. Just Bitcoin mining. If this stands, then you’ve created a precedent where the federal government can just willy nilly create all kinds of surveys and intrusive stuff where they can ask any business to disclose really anything because you’re a data center.

[00:15:52] And so that applies to AI, to the servers that host all our social media. And so the, the implications of this are go far [00:16:00] beyond Bitcoin mining and eventually that led to us engaging legal counsel and we sued the Energy Information Administration and we immediately won because the basis of this stuff was, was just patently absurd.

[00:16:13] What it showed in kind of broad daylight is that a lot of what goes on with the government. Is unconstitutional and we’ve had a situation where various and different federal agencies will just by enforcement and by decree essentially create new laws and that is that is not their their remit. And they don’t have the authority to do that kind of stuff.

[00:16:38] We, the Texas Blockchain Council, at that time felt, you know, entering a new phase where to be a nation of laws, the United States, we have to uphold the law. And if we see federal agencies just clearly disregarding that, making no effort to engage with incontrovertible data that shows them that the whole basis [00:17:00] of this is nonsensical, then you are forced as a citizen to seek a resolution through the court system, and we were successful in that.

[00:17:09] Unfortunately, I don’t think it’ll be the last. I wish that it was. But i don’t think that it will be neither in bitcoin mining or an AI or in any other fast innovating tech industry and i stress that often to people like don’t think all this is a bitcoin mining thing i don’t have anything to do with that no.

[00:17:27] This is about innovation and technology writ large and the authority that we see to the federal government when we don’t push back when we see them stepping over their bounce.

[00:17:38] Luke: It’s such a great point an interesting example too, because we’re seeing this happening right now. In fact, I mean, seems like, you know, of course, politicians will be the biggest political opportunists.

[00:17:48] Right? And I think we saw this also with some of the banking scares earlier to where, you know, signature bank and some of these other issues started to pop up and people started to like, because there were other things happening in the crypto [00:18:00] space, use crypto as the excuse, even though it’s pretty obvious that it wasn’t had nothing to do with it.

[00:18:05] And these were actually compliant, you know, vehicles that were regulated, that were causing issues. And I think that that’s what’s so surprising to me right now as somebody that’s in the technology space is that common sense has become this like thing that you feel weird having to say out loud because the enforcement actions are so over the, over the top.

[00:18:26] I think that people don’t understand as a startup in this space, you already have the odds stacked against you just as a startup in general, but then if you have to overly be concerned with litigation and all these other issues, like the federal government can litigate you all day, right? Like they, they, you know, they’re, they’re obviously.

[00:18:46] paying taxes knows that, right? Like it’s incredible, like how stifling this has an impact on new startups. Like, and I think that, you know, most people would argue more variety in companies out [00:19:00] there, that’s why we’re all here, right? Like it is to kind of, you know, create new opportunities for people, for industry, et cetera.

[00:19:05] And. You see some of these moves that are obviously political. And the thing that really rattles my cage about it is that in so many ways, these technologies are upgrades on known issues with old systems that need to be upgraded. I mean, like it is so funny that you mentioned that these things are public because they totally are like everybody wants to, you want to see the accounting, go look at the blockchain Explorer.

[00:19:26] It’s amazing that that’s even a thing, right? Like it’s. It could be, it could have saved us, you know, or helped, mitigate so many other issues in the past. I mean, when you look at AI, what do you see forming this association? Where are the first areas that you all are really going to drill down into as far as policy goes, and as far as things that you’re hearing from businesses that want it, maybe want to do things in AI and are concerned.

[00:19:49] What are those kinds of initial areas you guys were going to look at tackling? I think in order to answer that,

[00:19:54] Steve: I’ll take a quick step back to kind of set the stage because this idea was brought to [00:20:00] me by a member of the Texas Blockchain Council, and essentially the idea at its core was the Texas Blockchain Council has established itself as a capable association to advocate for a pro decentralization, pro entrepreneurship Entrepreneurship and innovation kind of agenda while also providing a lot of value to members as a networking kind of venue to build up new businesses.

[00:20:21] And in a nutshell, the pitch was, we need something like that for AI. My initial reaction to that was, well, it was kind of twofold to be honest. The first was I’m busy and I don’t think I have time for that. So that was number one. But number two, and this was six or seven months ago. I can’t remember quite when, but sometime ago, which that amount of time in AI is like 10 years.

[00:20:43] Luke: Right. And at

[00:20:44] Steve: that time I said, you know, AI is something where I don’t think the threat to innovation is quite as severe and existential maybe as what we’ve been dealing with more recently. Well, you fast forward and [00:21:00] more and more. I saw that the threat is in fact. Just as existential and eminent in AI, as it has been in digital assets.

[00:21:10] But here’s the critical difference. I kind of had my own aha moment that I think many people are having interacting with, with AI. You know, I, I played with the chat bots and whatever, when they first came out. And initially I’m like, ah, I don’t know if this is much of a material improvement on what’s already available on just a general search engine or whatever.

[00:21:28] And, and, you know, new ones come out that are more and more powerful and I had a project I was working on where I was wanting to translate some stuff and summarize a longer document in English and then translate it over to Spanish. And I’ve done a fair amount of that work in my own past life. I flew it in Spanish and I put that in there and.

[00:21:47] Was just astonished at the speed and the quality that it was able to do that. Of course, there’s been online translation services for however long, but they’re garbage and [00:22:00] this was something that was a complete step change. In terms of that now you you can have a hundred other different stories but i saw that and i said i want to work on this this is interesting and as i started to dig in it dawned upon me that.

[00:22:15] We’re fast approaching a point where ai is not something that’s voluntary or opt in ai is going to be so and already is. So disruptive i would maintain in a good way ultimately but it is so disruptive that it touches all industries all lifestyles all people and very soon every smartphone car all of this is going to have some kind of embedded in it i saw that you know the total impact of this technology is.

[00:22:49] It’s just absolutely tremendous but i also see the kind of storm clouds gathering to stir up kind of a mania with the very [00:23:00] same doomer is on that we’ve seen bitcoin mining to try to paint as well this is a terminator it’s gonna destroy the world and it’s coming to get you and that has been the case.

[00:23:11] Inhumanity forever right? There’s all kinds of memes out there around the struggle to demonize electricity and that if we, you know, if we abandon our candles and we have electricity, the light bulbs are going to kill us all. And it’s it’s evil. And that’s laughable for us now. But that was very real then.

[00:23:28] that was a legitimate, you know, opinion to hold. Same thing with the internet. You can go and find these ridiculous articles that, Oh, this is a fad and it’s going to go away and don’t believe it. And, you know, and now again, we find that to be, to be laughable. An example I often use just meeting with people is look.

[00:23:42] When Twitter first came out, if I had told you, Hey, this little app with the blue bird, this is going to like determine future presidential elections and be the primary way through which information is disseminated, I maybe it would have been sent to an asylum, right? To even make that. Right.

[00:23:57] Luke: They would have left you out of the room.

[00:23:58] Yeah.

[00:23:58] Steve: That’s right and so when I [00:24:00] say that is not going to be optional and it disrupts nearly every industry I’m already not alone in that viewpoint and I grow firmer and firmer in that conviction every day so that was a long kind of intro back to the question that you asked which is kind of what is the first sort of.

[00:24:14] The reason fundamentally for the creation of AI Innovation Association and the central word there for me is innovation and the best way that we have had innovation and technology in the past has been through open source collaboration. The crux of the dumerism right now, I think, is around this issue.

[00:24:33] Open source versus closed source and i’m not out there to demonize or to try to shut down closed source models that’s not the mission of ai innovation association but our fundamental stance is open source first. That when somebody is looking to build a company or assess implementing an AI solution, you may end up choosing to close it off.

[00:24:59] Particularly once [00:25:00] you have, you know, important private information. Yeah, you shouldn’t be open sourcing that to everyone, but I’m talking about the foundation model. I’m talking about the foundation upon which we build this innovative AI economy. Should that foundation be open source? Or should microsoft own it all and i think that is a fundamental question for our civilization right now that has gone from kind of marginal to i think a critical central question that really every legislator every state government every agency should be interacting with this.

[00:25:36] And taking a position because for for us and a innovation association open source innovation and open source foundation models is a free speech issue and that’s a value that this country was founded on i don’t think it’s a republican or democrat value i sure hope it isn’t i think it’s an american value.

[00:25:58] And i think it should be a global [00:26:00] human rights value that free speech should be upheld. And the reality right now is that much of what we see is casting free speech open source in a light of we have to suppress this. We have to eradicate it. And I’ll give you a specific example. Your home state, the state of California, you know, recently had a law that’s passed out of committee in the Senate that was presented by a Senator Scott Weiner, I believe it’s Senate Bill 1047 in the name of purported safety.

[00:26:34] It creates whole new division frontier model division this is very orwellian name i don’t know where they go to come up with these names within the department of technology and this is what i’m talking about is you create these new divisions and give them this kind of vague mission. To enforce safety and to force people that are innovating in the AI space to essentially come and get a license for their model.

[00:26:57] And when you centralize [00:27:00] control over anything, it ends poorly. I think that’s fundamentally what the United States was founded on, right? We’re the United States. We’re not the kingdom of America. We’re a decentralized group of states. And I find that bill to be very troubling. Numerous people within the industry and AI companies have voiced.

[00:27:22] Deep concern with that and that is precisely the kind of issue that the innovation association is is being started to address from an unapologetically pro open source viewpoint which i am shocked to see is. Is widely being overlooked by many of the traditional, you know, chamber of commerce and you name it all these other different associations.

[00:27:48] Most of them are all we want to have everybody here and it’s going to be It’s just an association for everyone I guess well, uh, we do want to build up a broad membership We’re for that believe me [00:28:00] But if you don’t support open source innovation and believe that that is a critical right In the development of AI in the United States, then this is not the association for you.

[00:28:09] Let me just be perfectly clear about that. If you want to develop using other closed source models, that’s great too. you’re welcome. Yeah. But we do have first principles that unite us behind what we’re doing and what we think is important. That’s why I’m really happy. To be able to offer the brave browser to our members because it’s a perfect example of that of a privacy oriented privacy first, you know, search engine that’s got that has leo embedded into it and, you know, my opinion is like, why would you use google, they’re just going to steal your data and then use that to train their models and sell it back to you makes no sense and the product that brave is bringing, I think, Is exactly the kind of philosophically aligned thing that we need to promote because there is no functionality that google offers in terms of search that you can’t get through brave as far as [00:29:00] i see i find the quality very comparable but you have no privacy and you have an institution google that has been pretty consistently.

[00:29:08] Opposed to open sourcing a lot of the AI work that they’ve done.

[00:29:10] Luke: So, yeah, appreciate the kind of words on that too. And I think that one thing that people also neglect is that there’s shades of gray here with open source technology, right? Like it’s not all black or white. Like you can open source the code and have licensing that’s commercially, you know, viable for your use case where you’re not having to just like, it’s not like, Free open source where everybody can just, you know, have unlimited rights to use it.

[00:29:35] There are licenses that businesses can use and take advantage of with this model, right? How much of what you guys are doing is in the realm of kind of educating businesses and partners on what open source technology even means. Like, is that a key component of it? Absolutely. So

[00:29:54] Steve: you’ve hit the nail on the head.

[00:29:55] I’ve kind of laid out the, what I might describe as the 30, 000 foot, kind of [00:30:00] the ethos. Of what we’re trying to do, but the work now and actually launching this association and making it valuable is to build a membership that helps inform us of what helps them in terms of workforce development and building out a broader kind of platform in terms of our advocacy and our messaging.

[00:30:20] Look, I’m an energy guy by background. I’m a finance professional. I will never claim to be the, you know, the developer, the product manager for an, for an AI product. I’m very curious. I’m learning a lot. That’s not my role. Now I have proven to be adept at kind of gathering bright minds and helping to create a forum to have these very important discussions.

[00:30:42] But here’s what I would say. There is a fork in the road here. If you’re going to start to have a discussion around open source and the ethics around that, I think there’s a requirement at the outset to say, do we fundamentally believe that open source development is [00:31:00] free speech and it’s important, and we should seek to support and defend it.

[00:31:04] Is that a first principle or are there other more important things? And I think that the direction many discussions are going is, You can imagine all kinds of kind of apocalyptic outcomes of, of AI development. And that is the kind of core concern, all this bad stuff that could happen. That’s not totally a lie.

[00:31:24] Bad things have happened with everything that humanity’s developed. That’s not unique to AI. that’s every technology. But the first principle is what kind of guides the nature of the discussion and that’s where we hope we can have a differentiated venue to start having because what you’re saying is exactly right there’s a difference in the open source of approach.

[00:31:42] That like llama is taking vs maybe what xai is gonna end up being. We don’t know those are, they’re, they’re, they’re different products. And so I want to build a community of people where we can have those discussions. It can be a free and open discussion. And then we create a way to start to help our members [00:32:00] kind of develop experience that also helps them in the marketplace, whether they’re developing a company or looking for a job in the industry, because they’ve been able to participate in these kinds of discussions and ultimately trainings that help them understand kind of what’s, what’s going on in the landscape.

[00:32:16] I find that Overwhelmingly, as I talked to kind of small businesses that are very interested in this subject matter for most, it’s like, yeah, I got a, you know, a chat GPT account that is kind of the benchmark right now, whether we like it or not. I think there’s a tremendous opportunity to have an area where we say, okay, well, that’s fine, but let’s talk about what other implementations there are in the marketplace and what the pros and cons of that might be.

[00:32:41] For just the standard kind of business x y z i would love to have a lot of kind of a native companies that are very technically capable and that because we need that but i think the bigger market to serve here for a innovation association is all of these businesses that are being disrupted by this.

[00:32:59] And then [00:33:00] you’re inundated with all kinds of information that’s, you can watch YouTube videos for the next hundred years about this AI in the top 10, whatever, right? And so my desire is just to create a forum where we curate things a little more deliberately. Then just blasting out videos and provide a diversity of informed opinions.

[00:33:22] I’m excited to have brave along for that. I would encourage everyone listening. Like I want a diverse group of opinions in this. We need that. This is not the, you know, Steve’s the president. What did I say is the final word that’s not it. You know, my mission is to, create a place where we can have this important discussion.

[00:33:39] Luke: I think it’s fantastic what you’re doing. And I love that you reached out to about Brave. I mean, it’s one of those awesome things just as somebody who’s been at Brave from pretty much almost the beginning to see we’re at that stage where these tools are, are in market and people are finding value in them and we’re able to kind of use them for helping to advocate for open source adoption, because it’s such a critical [00:34:00] thing.

[00:34:00] What people don’t see is what scares them, just the unknown of what these and you look at these entities like, I mean, if you take the apples, apples value is more than a lot of GDPs globally, right? It’s insane. Like how large these companies are. And when you start to think about how these things when they’re doing stuff with closed stores, people just assume the worst.

[00:34:21] And that was technology. And so software. There are going to be bugs. Humans are going to screw things up. We just do that. Like that’s human nature. Um, but when you use that in an open source environment, you have the benefit of the public that can help you to watch. And it’s amazing just seeing communities of people that are just looking at code or ad blocking lists or all sorts of other things, all our blockchain explorers all day, right?

[00:34:42] Looking at, things that are happening and kind of. You know out of their own kind of dedication and maybe they turn it into a job You know depends but that’s a whole other part of you bringing innovation here And I think it’s awesome and I can tell you like i’ve interviewed federal government officials I’ve interviewed safety and ethics experts, you know phds like people that have helped to write regulation [00:35:00] in the eu and one thing is that there’s this missing piece of like Academic circles get together they talk right you’ve got different people people that are doing performance benchmarking around a are getting together and talking but like there are these gaps here between where the application and adoption of this technology you the rubber meets the road and the people that are building it and i think things like what you’re doing with the association are helping to kind of bridge that gap because.

[00:35:24] The government will never do it and the technologies companies not do it either. Everyone’s got to pay, you know, they have shareholders or, investors or just can’t think that far ahead, right? They’re building, they’re trying to find market fit. So it’s like having these things is really key and it’s awesome that you’re doing it.

[00:35:38] And I think, you know, one other thing that really, it jumps out and I love the fact that this is kind of, maybe you can expand on this too. It’s not the Texas AI Innovation Association, right? Like this is, more of a, a national effort, right? Or I would imagine even maybe a global one. And I love that you’re kind of breaking out that show, but it’s from Texas, because I think one thing that I see a lot, and it’s a thing that concerns me,, more in the crypto space than [00:36:00] anything is just, you start to see, it looks like political lobbying and it’s like a lot of lawyers and, folks that are in there and, you’re hoping they’re doing the right thing, but you know, that politics is kind of like the art of compromise and they’re, it’s You know, having first principles and your guys’s track record too, of actually like taking action and getting fast output from that.

[00:36:21] It’s awesome. I mean, I really applaud the effort and I’m totally, you know, I’m looking forward to seeing where this is going and how brave can be a part of this too. You mentioned you’re talking to small businesses, like, are businesses from across different verticals, are you seeing more attention kind of, or interest from certain areas than others?

[00:36:37] Or are they, is it pretty much kind of across the board that you’re seeing interest in this from different companies?

[00:36:42] Steve: The diversity of companies out there interested in this just from my network is astounding in a good way. I can tell you for our first member call, we’re going to feature three companies.

[00:36:55] And the first one is obvious it’s brave, but we have two [00:37:00] other companies. One angel AI has developed a product that helps to automate the mortgage application process. And so it’s a very narrowly focused tool just on that and does it in a number of different languages. So back to that kind of enabling multicultural engagement and has successfully processed thousands.

[00:37:23] Of mortgage applications and i went to a presentation about this and it was just awesome because there were a lot of people that maybe english wasn’t their native language they really struggle interacting with financial services but they’re successful i mean they they have monetary assets to invest they just the way the system set up doesn’t really work for them and this tool just automated it and and open that up to a whole community and i just thought that was that was amazing and then another company we’re gonna we’re gonna highlight.

[00:37:52] Is in the education space, and it’s a gentleman, a friend of mine here in Texas, actually, who recognized and I can vouch for this because [00:38:00] my wife was a former teacher. You know, teachers spend so much time lesson planning, they kind of get a curriculum, but then you got to implement that with the kids and do a little quiz and there’s a lot of time and just formatting that and preparing it.

[00:38:13] And so this again is kind of a narrowly focused tool that helps implement AI to really empower teachers through fairly simple prompts to create their own lessons and then share that in community and then a good idea kind of rises to the top and as you know over time you kind of keep. Prompt engineering and improve that and something i’ve heard and i don’t know who to credit this to but it’s kind of stuck with me is whenever you interact with an AI product it’s the worst it’s ever gonna be right it’s only gonna get better from there right when i interact with like the leo chatbot and brave search i’m like.

[00:38:49] This is great. And it’s going to keep getting better. And like Google is dead as far as I’m concerned. And so that’s good. Then you look at, cause I’ve played around with the mortgage application [00:39:00] thing, and I’m like, this is already really cool. Imagine in a year or two, like this could massively disrupt that.

[00:39:07] And so similarly for teachers, so many that are in like the drudgery of managing these different lesson plans. So I just love highlighting companies like that, that like they’re, they’re It’s happening right now. You know, you’re solving real issues today for people. So those are the first three. I’m in discussions with some other companies to highlight on, on future calls.

[00:39:27] Would love to hear from people from this podcast, because the mission to your, to your question, Luke is we want as many different companies in here showing what they can do with this technology, because that’s a big part of what we want to show to potential regulators and other various stakeholders that may be concerned.

[00:39:47] Of of just saying look at these entrepreneurial ventures you know if if we put up a huge regulatory moat with a bunch of complicated licensing processes and stuff like that you’re gonna squash out these kinds of [00:40:00] companies. That are out there building these products and that’s who we want to represent and then we also, these are fast growing companies.

[00:40:08] I’m hoping to build up that membership and as they grow, I would love to see them, you know, promote jobs and hire from within the association. And that’s a big role of an association as well. So our primary concern is to deliver value for our, Our customers. So some of that is is political. It needs to be that has to be there.

[00:40:27] Some of that is legal because I do think there’s litigation forthcoming. I hope not. But I do think that’s going to be there. And so it makes sense as an association to provide that kind of protection. But we want to be practical as well. And so if you’ve got a cool solution, if you’ve got a product you’re building, I’m not going to exclude it because it’s in this industry or that tool or this model or no, our whole mission is not to narrow this, but rather to build the biggest association we can around that first principle of free speech, open source, pro liberty.

[00:40:59] [00:41:00] If you’re aligned with that, then we’d love to have you.

[00:41:02] Luke: There are a lot of startup founders that are likely listening to this podcast. where can they go to get more information and to, to reach out to you all about, you know, joining a call or potentially joining the association?

[00:41:12] Steve: Our website is innovation connect.

[00:41:15] ai, innovation connect. Dot AI and, you know, pop populate kind of the connect with us there. That comes to me. We’re, we’re building communications through that. I am on LinkedIn, Steve canard. I’m kind of focused on promoting the association through that. The DMS are kind of open there. So feel, feel free to.

[00:41:35] Find me on LinkedIn and message me there. But yeah, the website innovation connect dot AI would be the easiest venue to kind of learn about what we’re doing and, and just sign up. And right now this is a hundred percent free right now. I think our, our mission is to bring together like minded individuals that see a need and a value in this.

[00:41:55] And if we build that value, then the rest will come and I’m confident that it will, but. [00:42:00] We’re not gatekeeping this. It’s a hundred percent free. So I just want as many people that are interested in being a part of this to go to that website and just join us and bring your ideas. And, think something really cool is going to come out of it.

[00:42:11] Luke: Oh, that’s fantastic. No. And you’ve been really gracious with your time today, Steve, and we really appreciate you coming in and sharing, you know, what you’re doing and kind of your story here. Is there anything that we didn’t cover that you want to let our audience know about just to kind of close things out?

[00:42:27] Steve: I would say in general, we are actively looking for organizations that want to be more active partners in this, that are building AI products that we can promote. so I’ve mentioned three and, brave is doing awesome. And thank you so much for that. So I’ve already put out the disclaimer, but I’m going to say it again.

[00:42:45] I am not the tech guy. I am not. Software developer and i need that kind of technical capacity and an advisory council that were building around that and i make it my mission to be very open and kind of teachable around [00:43:00] that stuff i learned early on in my entrepreneurial career. That one of the most important things is to know what, you know, and know what you don’t know.

[00:43:09] If you can achieve that, you’re more than half the way there as an entrepreneur. And then when, when you don’t know something, you need to seek counsel and listen to those people and get the best and brightest minds. So if you want to be a part of that and kind of a way to contribute to this, um, we are a nonprofit.

[00:43:25] And so we, we need some of that kind of, network around us that’s looking to contribute that way. And. The final thing i’m going to kind of close with to some extent is i spent a fair amount of time now looking for for like minded organizations or individuals out there that are putting out a message that i think aligns with us and i came across something that i feel like i kind of have to share and it’s it’s part of um andreessen horowitz has a uh they call it the techno optimist You And I’m going to say Andreessen Horowitz, not a member of our council, haven’t [00:44:00] given us any money or anything like that, but I, just came across this in the, you know, the world of the internet and it’s fairly long.

[00:44:07] I encourage people to go and interact with it, but there was a little blurb that just succinctly, I think, explain something that is kind of a universal law and it’s in identifying who is who. What they call is, who is the enemy? What are we kind of fighting against? We have to recognize as much as what we’re for, what is the threat here?

[00:44:27] And so I’m just going to read this quote because I just found it really struck me. Our enemy is corruption, regulatory capture, monopolies, cartels. Our enemy is institutions that in their youth were vital and energetic and truth seeking, but are now compromised and corroded and collapsing, blocking progress and increasingly desperate bids for continued relevance, frantically trying to justify their ongoing funding despite spiraling dysfunction and escalating ineptness.

[00:44:58] Our enemy is the ivory tower, [00:45:00] the know it all expert worldview, indulging in abstract theories, luxury beliefs, and social engineering, disconnected from the real world, delusional, unelected, and unaccountable, playing God with everyone else’s lives with total insulation from the consequences. Our enemy is speech control and thought control, the increasing use and plain sight of George Orwell’s 1984 as an instruction manual.

[00:45:29] I couldn’t have put it better myself. And that succinctly is why. We are starting AI innovation association. We see that same enemy and I’m an optimist just like Andreessen Horowitz. I think there’s a great groundswell of individuals, of companies. And entrepreneurs that see that enemy and we can overcome that

[00:45:52] Luke: fantastic.

[00:45:53] I can’t think of a better note to end on. That was amazing. Steve. I really appreciate your time today. Best of luck with the [00:46:00] association. I’m glad that brave can be a part of it. And I’m looking forward to kind of going to the meeting presenting what we’re doing there and seeing where you guys go and being part of that as much as we can.

[00:46:08] And I’d love to have you back to to kind of check in on how things are going. Thanks so much, Luke. The future is bright and thanks for being a part of it. All right. Thanks. We’ll talk soon. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the brave technologist podcast to never miss an episode. Make sure you hit follow in your podcast app.

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